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StephenS1
Monza


Joined: 04 Aug 2013
Posts: 182



PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject: 991.1 OPC Prices Reply with quote

I have been taking regular snapshots of the OPC prices of early gen1 991s and the prices have been basically the same for nearly a year and a half now.

With the prices having stayed static on 997.2 and 997.1s - all good specimens - it appears that for the time being the market is sticking with the early 991s now too.

If so that would be quite early in the model's life cycle. Just a thought.
 
  
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DRZ911
Suzuka


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 1117
Location: Belfast


PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, don't see how the prices of 991.1 and 997.2 equivalent cars (on model, spec and mileage) will move to a point where they equal one another.

Given a choice at that same price point, I would always go for the 991.1, and so probably would most people.

The Porsche strategy of limiting new car supply has really worked well for them in strengthening the prices of all generations of second-hand cars. They make more on the original sale (as little or no discounts offered) and more on each subsequent second-hand re-sale.
Brilliant really from a business point of view. worship
As buyers, not so good as the cost to buy second-hand or new is escalated. nooo
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StephenS1
Monza


Joined: 04 Aug 2013
Posts: 182



PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DRZ911 wrote:
Personally, don't see how the prices of 991.1 and 997.2 equivalent cars (on model, spec and mileage) will move to a point where they equal one another.

Given a choice at that same price point, I would always go for the 991.1, and so probably would most people.


I agree, I was making the point that they all seem to be staying fairly static, with the 991.1 hovering above 997.2.

DRZ911 wrote:
The Porsche strategy of limiting new car supply has really worked well for them in strengthening the prices of all generations of second-hand cars.


I didn't realise that they did this. I thought that was more of a Ferrari thing. I know that the 997s were sold in quite large amounts. I wonder if the same is true of the 991s. If they sold fewer of them that would help explain what we are seeing with their prices firming up around the £60k mark, above the prices of 997.2s.

I think people have come to realise what a good deal the 997s were/are given how much they depreciated.
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 12821
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure that Porsche ever took a deliberate decision to limit production numbers of the 991 Carreras. It's more a case that all 991s (including the most exotic) , all Caymans and all Boxsters are built on the same production line and the world-wide demand for these cars over the last 3 years has far exceeded production capability.

Whether priority has been given to producing cars for other markets I don't know but I'm pretty certain that many new UK car buyers will have been put off by the 6-9-12 month waiting lists that they have been quoted and bought different marques instead.

Either way this will have limited the amount of 991s filtering through to the UK second-hand market and kept values buoyant.
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chrisbill86
Trainee


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 77
Location: Milton Keynes


PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone got the numbers for 991 production over the years? Where do you source. I'm sure I've seen people quote in the past?!
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Rob325114
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Dec 2015
Posts: 272



PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed here regarding 991.1 prices. As someone that has been watching these very closely for the past year, I can confirm they have barely moved. In the end, I had to bite the bullet and pay the same price in August 2017 that I would have paid in August 2016... and I haven't seen a similar spec/mileage (for the price-point) on autotrader since.
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weejimmy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Mar 2014
Posts: 258
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the fact that the .2 swapped to the 3.0TT is also helping .1 residuals. I was very reluctant to let my 3.8 go... Sad
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mark pearce
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Joined: 06 May 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very frustrating market place in many ways

my own view is once the initial depreciation has been suffered by the first owner.
991 and 997 prices have been stable for the last 3 years, if anything they ve crept up by about £2-£3000.

theres so few cars in the market with the desired spec, I can't see prices softening as there is so much trade demand for them.


the other consideration is the balance of new cars being sold.

Porsche seem to sell circa 11,000 cars a year in the UK.

But 12 years ago 25% of them were 4wd's
now 25% are Sports Cars.

the problem being 3/4 years later theres so few cars on the market because they were never sold new 3 years previously.

witha 991 being over £100,000 for a moderately spec'd car, the 992 being 12/18 months away I can't see things changing in the near future
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chrisbill86
Trainee


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 77
Location: Milton Keynes


PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weejimmy wrote:
I think the fact that the .2 swapped to the 3.0TT is also helping .1 residuals. I was very reluctant to let my 3.8 go... Sad


This will hugely help. Will NA be the aircooled vibe in 20 years time?

I'll struggle to let max power 5500 rpm be replaced by max power at 1700 rpm
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acamp76144
Trainee


Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 69
Location: Belfast


PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's pretty mental that my 2014 4S would still seem to be worth the guts of 70k, or only c.30% depreciation from new. Must be amongst the lowest depreciation on any new car over the period.

I think there must be a NA vs turbo element to it too. Last of the air cooled argument (re 993's) becomes last of the NA's (for 991.1)?!

Planning to hold on to mine until 992 GTS comes out. Maybe buyer view is that there isn't enough of a change to 991 and to some the addition of the turbo is a net negative? Add that to limited supply and that's my guess on the strength of residuals.
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Poker2009
Hockenheim


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 711
Location: London


PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was seriously tempted to upgrade to a 991.1 C4S Manual (as I thought last of NA engines, and I really like the red strip, and lights) a couple of years ago, and went to test drive one. Its a lovely car, but didn't feel much different to what I have now (infact not even sure I would have ever got used to the slanting gearstick!).

I've just saved my money, spent a bit on a couple of upgrades, and am perfectly happy.

I also think NA cars will continue to appreciate. I've had my 997 eight years, and although obviously spending money on maintenance etc, it is probably still worth just 10k less than what I paid for it.
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BChivs
Silverstone


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 107



PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently bought a 996 C4S being my entrance into Porsche ownership....I've longed to own a 911 for a long time, and although I could've spent more on my initial purchase I thought the C4S was a good first 911. That said the 991 is really drawing me. I really like the 997, but the 991 gives me that school boy feeling where I need to own one! When I see a 991 I always comment to my other half how nice they are, and I am pretty confident it will be a 991 that eventually pushes me to part with the 996 and move to a later car. I think I will sit tight for the next 18-24 months, see which way values go on each model and then maybe take the plunge.
 
  
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Forrester
Newbie


Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 7



PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of other data points ...

1) Porsche recently had a 991 4S priced at 83k very similar in spec to my car when I bought it. The price was nearly identical to what I paid for mine in October 2 years ago. In other words, there has been very little depreciation over a two year period due to age. Also, there's another 991 4S with mileage similar to mine (18500 miles), a year older than mine, same spec, for 80k. That's 3k difference for an extra 10k miles and 3 years older than mine when I bought it. It looks to me like the depreciation curve is essentially flat right now.

2) just look at the number of cars advertised here - 69 997s and 5(!) 991s. When I started looking 2 1/2 years ago, there were over 100 997s and 3 or 4 991s. The 991 is now well over half way through it's life cycle (7 years?) and there is still no appreciable number of private 991s available and this (I think) is eating into the supply of 997s.

Obviously you cant draw too many conclusions from this, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a 991 to come down substantially in price over the next couple of years - there simply aren't that many around and they seem to be all good.

The usual rule applies - good, cheap, available: choose any two.
 
  
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pierrebear
Newbie


Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Posts: 30
Location: Jersey


PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sold my 997 after just over one year of ownership (June 2016 to September 2017) and made a 5% profit. I think the TT'ing of the 991.2 engines is definitely helping residuals, together with relative rarity of manual gearboxes etc.

Definitely an argument for NA becoming the new air cooled in 20 years. My only concern is how well built the water cooled gens are and whether they will stand the test of time in the same way as the air cooled. I guess that what will happen is that IMS issues/bore scoring/crashes will kill off some cars meaning that the market remains very steady for all cars that survive the test of time. Just my tuppence worth.
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Kryton
Monza


Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 221
Location: Coniston, Lake District


PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm collecting my 991.2 GT3 this month and I'd say that it should continue to hold it's value and more so given that it'll be the last GT3 NA car, thus being more desirable in 4.0 guise
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