Mezger v DFI.....? Advantage DFI.....

911tom said:

MisterCorn said:

apollokre1d said:

MisterCorn said:

My advice to anybody with a turbo Mezger would be to not tune it. Leave it just as it left the factory.

MC

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Why?

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Because it is a long and slippery slope which will end up with large costs and 1000hp. Unless of course you have sort of self control. :roll:

MC

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Good advice!

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That's great advice guys, of course both of you practice what you preach too.... :grin:

MisterCorn said:

My advice to anybody with a turbo Mezger would be to not tune it. Leave it just as it left the factory.

MC

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Come again?
:?:

Should that not have read " tune with only a select few tuners"

MisterCorn said:

apollokre1d said:

MisterCorn said:

My advice to anybody with a turbo Mezger would be to not tune it. Leave it just as it left the factory.

MC

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Why?

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Because it is a long and slippery slope which will end up with large costs and 1000hp. Unless of course you have sort of self control. :roll:

MC

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That advice should apply to everyone don't you think? Not just "anybody with a turbo Mezger"... some of us tend do it properly and actually do our research on where to go for these mods, for those that don't it's their own stupid fault.

I think what mc is saying is you start with an exhaust and remap. Then it's not enough so you buy a pair of k16 hybrids and a 5 bar fpr. Then you think I may as well change the injectors and intercoolers to get the most out of the turbos. You run like that for a couple of years then you think a small refresh of the engine would be nice, rods head studs etc. That way you can safely push a bit more. Then before you know it you are thinking f it, might as well go all the way 3.8 conversion etc.... then comes meth injection.

I'm not alone in this I can think of several others on this forum that have been through this process or are part way through already.

I think the key thing is to have a goal re mods and then stick to it. If you then talk through your goals with a quality tuner who has done it many times before he'll suggest the best route to achieve those goals within a set budget.

The 996 and 997.1 and 997.2 turbo leave so much power on the table crazy at least not to put a better than OEM flowing exhaust and a better than OEM flash which gives better fuel consumption, better drivability due to less lag and more power of course. Hard to argue against a flash and exhaust especially when its from a tuner like Manthey or 9e.

Tom, interesting you mention meth I've been looking at the tuning market for 996/997 and ESM tuned cars are quicker generally due to using meth injection. The issue I have is that if you tune for meth and have a stuck jet or failed solenoid it could be catastrophic. Tom PM me pls with that info as I was going to use your guy for some mod work. Any feedback on experience very helpful. All the best :thumbs:

Phil 997 said:

Having had both gen1 and gen2 NA cars although the gen 1 997 engine is a nice solid lump and I loved it and had very very little problem with it, there is no doubt the gen2 DFI engine is a more refined more powerful and more economical power plant but does it add more grin " no not really" the grin you get from driving any 911 is all the grin you need and whether you spend 15k or 60k the grin is the same just the wallet is lighter lol :thumb: :thumb:

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Are the 997 NA mezger? I thought it was the 997 Turbo and GT cars?

jotaking said:

Are the 997 NA mezger? I thought it was the 997 Turbo and GT cars?

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You are correct, the 997.1 uses the M97 engines.

In the real world and assuming you are not tracking or doing Vmax runs then a quality map and allowing the exhaust to breathe better is in real terms all the power you will ever need for a road car. In the years I have owned mine I have had great laughs with some more modern machines coming up behind and having a go, the mid range power is savage and have YET to come up against anything that can live with it.
Its a great feeling to know that what you have behind you is essentially a pure bred racing engine that is so strong and reliable, the correct flash just opens that experience up and it starts to feel like a motorsport engine, the trick is finding the road that you can exploit it on, in seconds you are at jail speed.

Desert Dragon said:

Tom, interesting you mention meth I've been looking at the tuning market for 996/997 and ESM tuned cars are quicker generally due to using meth injection. The issue I have is that if you tune for meth and have a stuck jet or failed solenoid it could be catastrophic. Tom PM me pls with that info as I was going to use your guy for some mod work. Any feedback on experience very helpful. All the best :thumbs:

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Rather than PM I'll put my input on here as it could be useful for others.
Absolutely agree running meth does have an element of risk and is a little messy. However that does depend how you use it. If you tune for it allowing for the extra fueling that the methanol introduces then yes if something fails you could be risking AFR's running lean. But the advantage of meth injection is not just the added fueling. It is also the way it helps to cool intake air temps. You can just run water if you want to and it will make a big difference. I am no expert but I understand that a non-meth/water injected car will see 60C intake temps where as the same car with meth/water injection will be more around 30C. That makes a huge difference. However if you were to run out of water or something was to fail then it would just mean intake temps would be back up with the non-meth car. So long as whoever tunes the car does not disable the in built safety features the ecu will pull timing accordingly, as it does anyway as ambient temperatures change. Running a 50/50 blend of water and meth will just add a bit more octane for extra safety. Maxing out the fueling including the add meth is a choice the owner/tuner makes. Personally I would feel happy maxing out the vpower with the added safety of meth.

My plan is to run a separate map for meth that I will use just for events etc where I am constantly logging and keeping an eye on my lambda gauge. I am tempted to add a EGT gauge too. Don't forget Rick can load up to 5 maps I think on the stock ECU that you select with the cruise control so changing maps takes seconds. I am no expert in any of this and am learning as I go. If you want to know anything specific then let me know or speak with Matt at Fearnsport for the mechanics or Rick at Unicorn Motor Developments for the tuning. Or if you want a one stop shop give Ken at 9e a call. You won't be going wrong with any of these guys.

911tom said:

I think what mc is saying is you start with an exhaust and remap. Then it's not enough so you buy a pair of k16 hybrids and a 5 bar fpr. Then you think I may as well change the injectors and intercoolers to get the most out of the turbos. You run like that for a couple of years then you think a small refresh of the engine would be nice, rods head studs etc. That way you can safely push a bit more. Then before you know it you are thinking f it, might as well go all the way 3.8 conversion etc.... then comes meth injection.

I'm not alone in this I can think of several others on this forum that have been through this process or are part way through already.

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You have hit the nail on the head. I thought the exhaust and remap would be enough, but now I find myself looking at hybrid turbos and intercoolers. Its good to hear that those two upgrades will keep be happy for at least a couple of years :grin: . Just under 600hp is what I want to end it at. To force myself to stop I am only going to go for the 997 GT2RS intercoolers

Agree, It is a slippery slope.

I wanted to keep my 996 X50 turbo as original as possible. However, I have changed to semi-solid RS engine mounts and a 9e switchable exhaust with 100 cat cells. Now sounds awesome.

Would like a simple safe remap to take it from 450 bhp to 500 bhp and don't want to go add any more eg larger intercoolers, IPD Plenums etc.

Love the originality and beauty of 996tt.

P911X50 said:

Agree, It is a slippery slope.

I wanted to keep my 996 X50 turbo as original as possible. However, I have changed to semi-solid RS engine mounts and a 9e switchable exhaust with 100 cat cells. Now sounds awesome.

Would like a simple safe remap to take it from 450 bhp to 500 bhp and don't want to go add any more eg larger intercoolers, IPD Plenums etc.

Love the originality and beauty of 996tt.

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You should definitely go for a remap. If you get a decent one it has even better driveability when you are going slowly around town. It's a lot smoother at slower speeds. Depending how you drive it (correct gear when you floor it) your stock clutch should be fine too.