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Jcx
Estoril


Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 3811


2010 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: What is more important in service history: time or miles? Reply with quote

Ok P fans. As the title says...

What is more important in service history: time or miles?

Is your own history spot on for miles between service or time?

And, what is an acceptable 'stretch' for either? 1,000 miles late? 3,000 late? 1 month late? 3? 6?

And what bearing does it have on OPC insurance-backed warranty terms?

I plan a column on this in Total 911 in the coming months as I approach my service anniversary.

I may quote this thread in my column if contributions are meaningful. 🤔
 
  
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5626
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a tricky one. I was out of the country this year when my service was due in Feb so it was done in July. Yes it was 4 months late which may raise a red flag if I ever sold the car. However the car did 2,000 in that year and never moved in the months it was overdue. So in my case which is more important?

I'm the exception however, but I'd say it depends. I'd be more concerned personally if the car had more miles on and had been used over the recommended mileage.
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AdeD
Imola


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
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2010 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's well within the mileage i wouldn't be concerned about being a couple of months late, the shelf life of the oil is well in excess of the service schedules.
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5014
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if we base this on 2 year service intervals and then we say its 3 K over on miles then it would certainly indicate the car is being used heavily , its being used all year round and to me it would indicate there would be a fair few items that would need replaceing on said service.

Oil may be good but it does have its limits .. from a purchase point of view then it would be a red flag i would have thought .

Low miles and over on time .. its garaged , its not being used very often and is probably off the road in poor weather .

That would mean little needs changeing on a service and there would be far less corrosion issues ( coolant pipes , a/c pipes etc ) .

Lack of use could indicate short journeys though .

I would prefer over on time but not on miles though .


MOT advisory history is another one to look at .. a car with advisorys most years even with a good service record means its not being well maintained , it may well be getting the service but the customer is not spending money on anything else until he needs to.


OPC warrenty .. if its got one then its OPC looked after and a big tick in my book , i personnely wouldn,t own a Porsche with out a warrenty and i still consider the OPC to be the best .. but i also dont own a Porsche Razz
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T8
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
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Location: Kent


PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously the most ideal is for servicing to be done within prescribed time AND mileage intervals.

In the real world however I've always considered that if the mileage isn't exceeded then going a few months over wouldn't hurt. The key word here is 'months'.

When looking at any service history it's the year that 90% of people focus on. I bet very few would notice, or care, if a car with a 2 year service interval had been serviced in February 2013 and then August 2015.

NB: I'd take advice from an OPC before doing this with a car with a Porsche extended warranty however.

I'd always be more wary of cars that hadn't been serviced within prescribed mileage intervals.

I'm looking forward to reading your T911 column on this JCX. I thoroughly enjoyed your 'colours' article in this months edition. So much so that the next time I'm in WH Smiths I'll read it again. Smile
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Jcx
Estoril


Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 3811


2010 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
I'm looking forward to reading your T911 column on this JCX. I thoroughly enjoyed your 'colours' article in this months edition. So much so that the next time I'm in WH Smiths I'll read it again. Smile


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Jcx
Estoril


Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 3811


2010 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just looking at the service book... service intervals are referred to as 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, + years. As these are absolute references to the vehicle age and not relative to the last service i think the time issue is answered.

Now you might say "ah, but they 'mean' to refer to a delta between services and they are just using the anniversary date to keep it simple."

But, for additional items, they are referenced as deltas i.e. "every 2 years".
 
  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5014
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erm .. not sure i quite get this .. if a car has a service at 18 monthes old instead of 2 years then its next service is due 2 years after that date and not the date that it should have been done at .. ie 6 monthes later as that would equate to 2.5 years since the last service .

If a car has its first service at 26 monthes then the next one is due 2 years later .

It will be either an early or a late service .

Additional items are every 2 years or milage from date of origin and can be done without a service .. but thats not cost effective .

Im missing something here i know .. please enlighten me young man Smile
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Jcx
Estoril


Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 3811


2010 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure how to make the point a different way without simply repeating myself but I'll give it a go.

I do agree that the common interpretation when reading the service book is that the service intervals are timed from the previous service.

And yet the service book is explicit with its references to time passing from new. We can know it is explicit and intentionally so as other references are also explicitly based on the time that has passed since the same job was completed previously.

To adopt two different styles for making the same point is not very German and it leaves the whole thing open to interpretation. To adopt two different styles for making two subtlety different points removes the need for interpretation and is very German indeed.

I can accept that the common interpretation, the spirit of the book relates to time that passes between services but the letter of the book is clearly different. It's like the various sections were written by different folks. Which is also possible.

As for the economics... the OPC separates the plugs charge from the service charge and does not appear to qualify that separate charge as "only if done at the time of a service" so I am left thinking that I could get that price with or without a service.

It is all very nuanced and largely academic until it is challenged. But I suspect if it were challenged the lawyers would bill for many hours making their cases Judge
 
  
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wasz
Magny-Cours


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2550


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i do mine every 6k, takes 30 minutes and £40 of oil.

dead easy you don't even need to jack it up.

why faff taking it somewhere and why risk not having good oil in there?
 
  
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mark pearce
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Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 2709
Location: Nationwide


PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The worst thing is a car thats gone over the mileage interval between services
But

I ve seen a lot of cars that have gone over the interval on time, with very low mileages,

the main 'reason' being last service in say October/november next service 16 months later in march/spril, - low mileage car put away for the winter and then serviced in spring before the summer use.


I do remember a torrent of abuse from a seller whose car I walked away from as he'd owned it for 4 months and it was 6 months over due a service. as I said what sort of person buys a £35,000 car thats 2 months overdue a service, drives it for 4 months then sells it and hasn't bothered to have it serviced?
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rigsby99
Monza


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 160
Location: South Cheshire


PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bottom line is how long and how many miles on the oil. I bought my 997 from an OPC with 20,000 miles and full warranty, they did the first service on mileage at three years old. It doesn't use a drop of oil. The timing of servicing seems to me a con, you used to be able to run a diesel VW for 50K or so before changing the cam belt, now it has to be done at four years regardless. Alternator belt on a Porsche at six years regardless of mileage or condition same with plugs. Your plugs have only done 6000 miles sir, sorry but their time is up that will be a few hundred pounds please. They're only motor cars, use common sense.
 
  
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Jcx
Estoril


Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 3811


2010 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark pearce wrote:
The worst thing is a car thats gone over the mileage interval between services
But

I ve seen a lot of cars that have gone over the interval on time, with very low mileages,

the main 'reason' being last service in say October/november next service 16 months later in march/spril, - low mileage car put away for the winter and then serviced in spring before the summer use.


I do remember a torrent of abuse from a seller whose car I walked away from as he'd owned it for 4 months and it was 6 months over due a service. as I said what sort of person buys a £35,000 car thats 2 months overdue a service, drives it for 4 months then sells it and hasn't bothered to have it serviced?


Very good points Mark. I think the 'mothballed over the winter' argument is strong and the chap who buys and runs but doesnt service is a wally. and so it proved when a dealer with a reputation for quality said it wasnt the car for him.

rigsby99 wrote:
The bottom line is how long and how many miles on the oil. I bought my 997 from an OPC with 20,000 miles and full warranty, they did the first service on mileage at three years old. It doesn't use a drop of oil. The timing of servicing seems to me a con, you used to be able to run a diesel VW for 50K or so before changing the cam belt, now it has to be done at four years regardless. Alternator belt on a Porsche at six years regardless of mileage or condition same with plugs. Your plugs have only done 6000 miles sir, sorry but their time is up that will be a few hundred pounds please. They're only motor cars, use common sense.


the time thing is funny. i can see that in some cases products do deteriorate over time such as rubber, oil etc. but spark plugs? really? sure low miles might mean lots of short trips which may impact their life but it may also mean one euro trip every summer and an 11 month layup thereafter. those plugs will not be ageing i dont suppose.
 
  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5014
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok im with you , service based on manufacturer date and every 2 years there after , if it goes over on one service then the next should be done earlier to pull it back into line .

Sorry i thought this was about a single late service .

One point is the date of manufacturer is not the date the service interval is set .. its when its PDI,ed and that can be 6 monthes after build date so in theory its already over by its first service but to be fair other than shunting around on and off the ship and sitting in a yard then its not actually driven .... not all cars are customer orders some are dealer issue .

Plugs are more of a throw back to the air cooled when different people did different miles so a plug change is not part of a set service but a recomended option , plus it makes the service cost seem low if everything is an option a good selling point i would have thought !

On a gen 2 onwards then it must be done on time reguardless of the milage as due to the design they carbon up on the threads and can be difficult to remove if left for longer to the point of actually not being able to remove them as has happened to me on 1 occasion .

Belts are rubber so its time and milage as they are under tension .

Brake fluid absorbs moisture so it is time .

All books / manuals etc are translated from German into other languages and never by people that actually know what they are supposed to be saying .

The manuals at least can be difficult to understand and in some cases even wrong as a direct translation by a non mechanic doesn,t work.
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Jcx
Estoril


Joined: 15 Aug 2013
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2010 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thumbsup worship
 
  
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MNC911
Österreich


Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 985
Location: Prestbury


PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like to see them serviced annually. A buyer might look at a car having only ever covered 1k every year. Now what would their thoughts be if the seller said it's used to cold start on the school run a short distance, then another cold start home and then repeated again on the collection run.

What I'm getting at Joe is common sense should be applied whether it's time or distance. But overall I think distance should have to be the first to react upon.
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Jcx
Estoril


Joined: 15 Aug 2013
Posts: 3811


2010 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. Seems common sense prevails but sometimes the details are missing or at least the narrator is AWOL. 🤓
 
  
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