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Chain tensioner & Hydraulic lifter (tappet) replacement

Good call Infrasilver, I did a check today and no exhaust gases.

I had a good listen with a screw driver and the only tensioner where I could possibly pick up any noise was the one on R/H side forward (crankcase one with just 1x ring on it).
I decided to whip it out, firstly putting the engine at TDC; this in itself was a bit of a faff as I have recently fitted a underdrive crank pulley so I had to fit the OEM one back in. I didn't bother with locking the cam shaft.

TDC:
37343681275_4b2fcfc25a_h.jpg


Tensioner location:
37343679205_2e235117cc_h.jpg


Tensioner removed:
36946131430_322d041c6a_h.jpg


Also made a quick video to see if anyone can say whether this tension is about correct when the oil has been removed from the tensioner:

Ignore the fact I say No.2 bank as I think this one is the crankcase tensioner.

Demort I seem to have misplaced your phone number. If you could remind me again that would be much appreciated :)
 
Just another thought; I could hear the noise most around the bell housing/fwd lower engine area. I feel the tensioner I have just removed is ok and I'm starting to think it is actually the IMS bearing that is on it's way out???
 
ELA said:
Just another thought; I could hear the noise most around the bell housing/fwd lower engine area. I feel the tensioner I have just removed is ok and I'm starting to think it is actually the IMS bearing that is on it's way out???

Whats your cam deviation figures (from durametric)?
 
That's the ims shaft to crank chain tensioner you have removed.

I will have a look at mine this eve which are out of the car and see if I can comparess between finger and thumb as you have, but I believe mine are hard to compress and still full of oil even having been sat for months in plastic bags.

As said have a look at cam deviation on Durametric which may indicate if there's an issue developing.

Was any of this touched when the gbox was removed for your LSD work recently?
 
No guys, nothing touched during recent LSD and gearbox work. I've ordered a new Crankcase Tensioner (IMS shaft one) from Porsche, so I can't do any further tests until that arrives.
Having mentioned the IMS bearing earlier; my thoughts are that there are no real noises associated with them, as they normally either work or fail. If it's not the tensioner then my thinking is a tappet is the likely culprit.
I also spoke to Hartech and the Tensioner pressure sounds about right to them. They are however a weak point on the engine.
 
Ragpicker: Hartech don't really get involved with trying to diagnose via video's as there are so many potential areas that can create this type of noise and they wouldn't want to potentially advise something that might not be the cause. I did speak to them at length though and they were incredibly helpful as ever.
After fitting the new tensioner and doing a bit more testing I am now 99% sure it is a hydraulic lifter from cylinder No.3. So today I stripped the car down in preparation to get it sorted. A couple of questions though:

-It looks like the early cars had 24 of the same lifters (tappets) part number 996.105.041.72. And the later cars had 12 of these for the exhaust side but then 12x 996.105.255.25 for the inlet lifters. They are all made by INA for Porsche. My head has Vario cam F1 stamped into it. Does this mean I have 24 the same or the 12 & 12 config? As when I gave my OPC my chassis number, they gave me the part numbers for the inlet & outlet lifters being different (like the later cars). I was planning on replacing the whole banks worth of lifters and want to order up all the correct parts

-When you do a bit of research the exhaust lifter P/N:996.105.041.72 converts to INA P/N: 420 0104 10 or by Febi Bilstein the part number is: 07589. Sometimes the Febi Bilstein ones state that the OEM reference number is both 996.105.041.72 or .50 on the end. The .50 one is also the same as BMW ones, which seem to be about half the price. Can anyone confirm if 996.105.041.72 is the same as 996.105.041.50?

-If you are taking the cams out to replace the lifters I guess there is no point in fitting the cam isolation lock at TDC as the cams are coming out anyway; well at least not on the side you are working on???

A few pictures to update:

Here is the complete waste of money new tensioner that I didn't need (new vs. old):
37268602611_a59bdc0842_h.jpg


Car stripped back down again:
37268601411_ad994e7233_h.jpg


Exhaust, support bracket, rear bumper, heat shields, manifold and coil packs all removed:
36599371693_7464c4a0e0_h.jpg


Bit of an oil leak here (fwd end of No.1 bank) but I cleaned a bit of the oil stain away to reveal the 'Vario Cam f1' script:
36599370723_7fbc09e851_h.jpg
 
Your engine being an early 5 chain vaiocam (not variocam plus) should have 24 identical lifters.

The variocam plus has different inlet lifters with the variable lift elements within.
 
We have a car out back waiting for a rebuild that a tensioner let go .. or just didnt tension enough if you like so i wouldn,t say its a waste of money .

Im of the opinion these days that a complete tensioner replacement is a worth while investment .. ive seen and herd of more than one of these failing without any prior warning .

From memory then you need a tool to hold the cams in place when you remove the cam cover , i think its the later type that are held in place and the early type need locking .. its a tool that sits in the end of the cams under the green bungs .

Engine 1 download here for the instructions .

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=83491

The vario cam you have is adjustable .. when refitting then make sure it is central to the cam cover .. dry fit the cover first to make sure its central before sealing and fitting it .

Noise sounded more like bank 2 than 1 but im only working from your video .
 
You will have 24 solid lifters, are you going to change all of them?

The part number also interchanges to a lifter used in a Kia

Obviously the Kia ones maybe the cheapest option when compared with the Porsche taxed parts but at the end of the day this seems to be a generic part.

https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/oenumber/0k95k12101a.html

:thumb:
 
Many thanks for the feedback guys, I just thought it strange that given the OPC had my chassis number, they claim the later variant set-up :dont know:

Demort said:
We have a car out back waiting for a rebuild that a tensioner let go .. or just didnt tension enough if you like so i wouldn,t say its a waste of money .

Im of the opinion these days that a complete tensioner replacement is a worth while investment .. ive seen and herd of more than one of these failing without any prior warning .

From memory then you need a tool to hold the cams in place when you remove the cam cover , i think its the later type that are held in place and the early type need locking .. its a tool that sits in the end of the cams under the green bungs .

Engine 1 download here for the instructions .

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=83491

The vario cam you have is adjustable .. when refitting then make sure it is central to the cam cover .. dry fit the cover first to make sure its central before sealing and fitting it .

Noise sounded more like bank 2 than 1 but im only working from your video .

Many thanks for the info regarding the tensioner Demort. I have now just ordered 12 identical lifters to swap the complete bank (LH side fwd cylinder is where I was picking up the noise, under AOS, so as far as I am aware this is the No.1 bank and would be Cyl 3 in my case?)
Also tool kit on order. I've not read the manual yet but I'm guessing I'll also need the green rubber bungs (4 of I think for this one side?). Then cylinder head cover gasket (this could also just be sealant?). Is there anything else normally required to swap out the lifters.
Only just replaced the Milliers NT oil so I'll have to do another oil change as well, always the way :frustrated:

Once I have it stripped down I'll have to see what you mean by this adjustable vario cam being central before refit as I can't quite picture it in my mind ;)
 
Harv said:
You will have 24 solid lifters, are you going to change all of them?

The part number also interchanges to a lifter used in a Kia

Obviously the Kia ones maybe the cheapest option when compared with the Porsche taxed parts but at the end of the day this seems to be a generic part.

https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/oenumber/0k95k12101a.html

:thumb:

Thanks Harv, it's always great to find parts that are so much cheaper without the Porsche tax.

It took me a while to find that my Lotus tappet shims are the same as Hillman Imp and various other BMC cars. They all trace their ancestry to the Coventry Climax engine via Harry Mundy.
 
You will need the green bungs .. the cover is " silicone sealent " obviously get the right stuff as i just call it that and the bathroom stuff is no good ;)

The oil can be drained into a clean containor and reused .. i do that on any job like this as oil isnt cheap .

You can replace the scavenge pump seal if you want , dont always have to and you will need a new seal for the vario unit .. yours is leaking anyways .

The cam unit has 3 bolts and can be twisted to line up with the hole in the cam cover ..

Basically offer up the cam cover to check its all ok before putting the sealent on and fitting it .

Instructions cover it better than i ever could .. you want the section removing camshafts .

Bank 1 is n/s and faceing the engine ( crank pully side ) it starts with the closest as no 1 then 2/3 so 3 is the furthest away from you and then Bank 2 is o/s and starts 4 then 5/6 .


Not sure what tools you have ordered but there is a special tool for compressing the slippers on the vario cam unit .. there are also a right and a left hand thread version of these .. check the instructions to see what tools you need and then can compair with what you have ordered :)
 
Demort said:
You will need the green bungs .. the cover is " silicone sealent " obviously get the right stuff as i just call it that and the bathroom stuff is no good ;)

The oil can be drained into a clean containor and reused .. i do that on any job like this as oil isnt cheap .

You can replace the scavenge pump seal if you want , dont always have to and you will need a new seal for the vario unit .. yours is leaking anyways .

The cam unit has 3 bolts and can be twisted to line up with the hole in the cam cover ..

Basically offer up the cam cover to check its all ok before putting the sealent on and fitting it .

Instructions cover it better than i ever could .. you want the section removing camshafts .

Bank 1 is n/s and faceing the engine ( crank pully side ) it starts with the closest as no 1 then 2/3 so 3 is the furthest away from you and then Bank 2 is o/s and starts 4 then 5/6 .


Not sure what tools you have ordered but there is a special tool for compressing the slippers on the vario cam unit .. there are also a right and a left hand thread version of these .. check the instructions to see what tools you need and then can compair with what you have ordered :)

Demort thanks once again for your words of wisdom ;)
It is the cylinder numbered 3 in this drawing which is where I suspect the fault lies:
37240639596_6625af671c_b.jpg


Also I'm not sure if the kit I ordered has the special tool for compressing the slippers on the vario cam unit. Also do you need the ancillary tensioner, that you screw in for setting the timing?
 
I always use the correct Loctite 5900 and nothing else to seal crankcases and cam covers, use it sparingly or you potentially risk the sealant squeezed out onto the inner edge of the cover/head dropping off and getting into your oil ways and blocking a main bearing or other oil feed. Once you have applied the sealant you have 15 minutes to torque up the mating faces before it goes off.

I wasn't happy with my indie using a different type of sealant and too much of it on my car when they fitted the cam covers after timing it up for me, on my next oil change I found red sealant bits in my oil filter and oil that had come off and had been swilling around my engine for a good few months, this could have wrecked the engine.

IIRC there was someone on here who's 964 engine was wrecked by loose sealant starving oil to the main bearing after an engine rebuild by a specialist.
 

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