When would a 911 stop being a 911?

MisterCorn · 1 Sep 2017

Zorro said:
MisterCorn said:

It will stop being a 911 when Porsche in their wisdom decide it is no longer a 911. They decided it was a 911 to start with, they will decode when it stops being one.

MC

Click to expand...

Think you will find it was a 901 to start with, but Peugeot weren't having it, hence it got changed to 911. Some of the older engine part number start 901.

That is as I understand it too, but I still think it was Porsche rather than Peugeot who first gave the car the 911 name, although I must confess it is a point of Porsche history I hadn't taken too much interest in up until now.

MC

New997buyer · 1 Sep 2017

T8 said:
When the Boxster and Cayman lost 2 pots they gained different names and there was no particular history or heritage associated with either of them.

Except for the flat four cylinder 718 on show from the 1950's in the Porsche museum?

Or the flat four mid engined 914?

Or the flat four cylinder 356?

Yes then I agree, apart from those it was a complete break from the past :wink:?

T8 said:
The 911 has become an icon and has always had a rear mounted flat-six engine. If that changed then I'm convinced that the name would too.

As others have said, it's all down to the buying public. I suspect we on here care far more about these things than the vast majority who order them new :?:

T8 said:
Perhaps the 912 moniker would be resurrected. :dont know:

That performed a particular marketing need currently and very successfully occupied. By Caymans, Boxsters and so on :thumb:

wasz · 1 Sep 2017

Few cars can trace their recognisable traits so far back. I struggle to think of any others apart from a Land Rover? A Range Rover I suppose too although not as old.

Most cars are completely different with a new generation.

The 911 has evolved rather than ever being replaced.

Each new model was a clear evolution from the last. The 996 was a big jump but still retained enough of the previous gen DNA to be accepted as a 911.

So are you saying even if everything else remains - silhouette, suspension, performance, interior, but the power plant dropped a couple of cylinder then you would not accept it as a 911? Is that a jump too far?

New997buyer · 1 Sep 2017

Reflecting more on your question Terry, I suspect to some it won't be. Just as there are some on here who think the 996 is the devil's work :dont know:

But my hunch is they'll always be the niche and the minority. As long as people want the 911, whatever that means to them, it'll be popular.

For me it represents the most usable sports car there is. Whether negotiating motorways, autobahns, autoroutes, A roads and up hill hairpin B roads on a brutal slope. It's the car that can do all that, with luggage, and still work the next day. As illustrated when me and a fella' coming the other way in a 458 Snyder said as we passed on a single track road near Lochinven said as we both lowered our windows for a friendly chat "At least one of us still has his front splitter". Followed by "I'm knackered!"

As long as it's still the super car you can use every day it'll still be a 911 IMHO :thumbs:

Porsche News · 1 Sep 2017

T8 said:
This started on a different thread but (imo) is worthy of discussion in its own right.

Thoughts?

wasz said:

will be the same story when the 911 loses its flat six.

sure whatever they come up with will be worthy, just different.

Click to expand...

If the 911 lost its flat six it wouldn't be a 911. :judge:

:thumbs:

Rear Engine Flat Six as it's main power plant makes it a 911

anything else is not a 911

:judge:

Harv · 1 Sep 2017

I have to agree it's when the 6 cyl engine disappears in rear mounted configuration (that's the only bit that still really traces the history all the way back).

Porsche have been this route before, called it the 912.

In another 20 years though the cars maybe sharing their basic platform with other models from the VAG range, so something like this:

The new all electric 999E built off the VW Golf part bins with some different panels and flat 6 noise generator
:dont know:

997 Coast · 1 Sep 2017

Flat six for any 911 :bandit:

The six is something that is special and should be retained.

SO - designers at mothership - bear that in mind.

:bandit:

T8 · 1 Sep 2017

New997buyer said:
T8 said:

When the Boxster and Cayman lost 2 pots they gained different names and there was no particular history or heritage associated with either of them.

Click to expand...

Except for the flat four cylinder 718 on show from the 1950's in the Porsche museum?

Or the flat four mid engined 914?

Or the flat four cylinder 356?

Yes then I agree, apart from those it was a complete break from the past :wink:?

I think you misunderstood my point.

It was the Boxster and Cayman that I was referring to when I said that they had no particular history or heritage.

Despite that when they lost 2 cylinders their names were altered.

The 911 has 54 years of history/heritage hence my view that if the engine was ever changed the name would be changed too.

I just hope it wouldn't be called a 911 718.

Disco · 1 Sep 2017

By putting a 4 cylinder in a 911 and changing its name to 912, Porsche themselves have basically already answered this question a long time ago with the flat 6 being part of the definition. Perversely though, the current 911 RSR (and the 911 GT1 from the 90s which largely wasn't much of a 911 to be honest) has its engine between the axles, so technically the rear engine is not a prerequisite.

So that is the official answer today, but there is no guarantee that will always be the case. I am pretty confident that one day there will be an all electric Porsche that the factory builds in a body the shape of a 911, but it is an open question as to whether they will still call it a 911 or whether it will get a name like a Carrera E or a new model number. The thing is though : 911 is as much of a brand as Porsche is, so it is difficult for me to imagine them ever abandoning the number as a model in the range.

T8 · 1 Sep 2017

Disco said:
The thing is though : 911 is as much of a brand as Porsche is, so it is difficult for me to imagine them ever abandoning the number as a model in the range.

:dont know: given that they seriously considered abandoning the whole thing in the 70s. :wink:

Niall996 · 1 Sep 2017

MisterCorn said:
I think there is a slight misunderstanding of the ban in there Niall996. The ban is on selling new petrol engine cars. Not on selling second hand ones or on driving them. Big difference.

MC

Ah okay. I see. But not that much different really. Porsche will still have to be all electric. I would put a big bet on that no EV's won't be allowed in cities. In fact non EV's might be downright socially unacceptable anyway. And all IC engined cars will be otherworldly to a bunch of 20 years olds who aren't even born yet!

Nimrod · 1 Sep 2017

For me flat 6 and rear/rear mid engine or its not a 911 .
It may still be a Porsche and a very good sports car as is the Cayman but a 911 has a unique feel.

I think your probably right Niall, I am sure IC engine cars will be banned eventually but I think we are a few years away yet as we struggle to keep the lights on at times never mind charge millions of car battery's . Are all the eco warriors going to accept lots of new nuclear power stations or do we all stay at home when the wind doesn't blow?

Where I life we have two buses a day neither would get anybody to work for 9am or home after 5pm so I will keep my GT4 and keep running it till it I can no longer buy petrol how ever unpopular I become . The locals already glare at me every day I drive past as they are blocking the roads on their horses or time trailing on bikes oblivious to other road users.

kurlykris · 2 Sep 2017

Porsche have spent 50 years plus trying to overcome the terrible design of the rear engined 911, with all the weight of the flat 6 hanging out of the back of the car and making it a real handfull/drivers car despite the weight imbalance, and they have done a sterling engineering job.

Which is why we love them :grin:

No flat six hanging out the back, not a Porsche 911 :judge:

You may as well buy a 1000 Bhp Datsun GTR skyline if you think any other way......................it will never be a 911 :hand:

The 911 layout is iconic and just so wrong in the way it behaves, to date I have 1 passenger with soiled underpants and 1 with vomit in her hair, that in itself says something about these fabulous cars :grin:

Trust me I`m an electrician and batteries will never deliver the real 911 experience :thumbs:

MisterCorn · 2 Sep 2017

kurlykris said:
Porsche have spent 50 years plus trying to overcome the terrible design of the rear engined 911, with all the weight of the flat 6 hanging out of the back of the car and making it a real handfull/drivers car despite the weight imbalance, and they have done a sterling engineering job.

Which is why we love them :grin:

No flat six hanging out the back, not a Porsche 911 :judge:

You may as well buy a 1000 Bhp Datsun GTR skyline if you think any other way......................it will never be a 911 :hand:

The 911 layout is iconic and just so wrong in the way it behaves, to date I have 1 passenger with soiled underpants and 1 with vomit in her hair, that in itself says something about these fabulous cars :grin:

Trust me I`m an electrician and batteries will never deliver the real 911 experience :thumbs:

Perhaps Porsche will put the battery pack behind the rear axle, they can then spend the next 50 years trying to make that work well whilst refusing to admit it was a pretty silly thing to do in the first place.

MC

Boba fett · 2 Sep 2017

Its the configeration that makes a 911 for me, A design that should not really work.

Porsche wont drop the name, its what sells lots of cars.

The "quiet ones" will no doubt be called 911E and then probably have something like a number after it to show how many kilowatts it is for bragging rights.

When would a 911 stop being a 911?

MisterCorn

Fuji

New997buyer

Fuji

wasz

Paul Ricard

New997buyer

Fuji

Porsche News

Moderator

Harv

Suzuka

997 Coast

Hockenheim

T8

Super Moderator

Disco

Portimao

T8

Super Moderator

Niall996

Imola

Nimrod

Montreal

kurlykris

Singapore

MisterCorn

Fuji

Boba fett

Magny-Cours

Similar threads

Latest posts

New Threads

Porsche Model Range

Porsche 911

Porsche Hypercars

Other Current Porsche Model

Porsche Legacy Models

Forum statistics