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weejimmy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Mar 2014
Posts: 268
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed
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Current: 991.2 C4GTS
Past: 991.1 C4S

Last edited by weejimmy on Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:20 am; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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weejimmy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Mar 2014
Posts: 268
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooops... double and triple post! Clearly a bit excitable this morning having driven the GTS on roads I know well! Thumb
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Last edited by weejimmy on Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:21 am; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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weejimmy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Mar 2014
Posts: 268
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palmball wrote:
There is one aspect I'm having to get used to, and that's a higher level of vibration at high speed. It feels like a very minor wheel balance issue, with a slight shimmy through the wheel and pedals only. It could be a wheel balance slightly out (big wheels are very sensitive) so I'm getting it checked by my dealer tomorrow, however it's not the same on every surface so I suspect it's more the stiff set-up just allowing more road 'feedback' through.


This doesnt really match with my findings at all thus far. Mine smooths out more the quicker you are going. No harshness or shimmy at all.

The R8 I tried was a V10 Plus with the magnetic dampers and for me that crashed and bucked at low speed and I felt like I was being thumped about in my seat. The GTS feels way better damped to me. Plus I just adore the Alcantara seats. They really lock you in place but are much more confy than the leather seats from my C4s. I found the R8 seats hugely uncomfortable. They were wooden and unsupportive.

I have had lower back issues in the past (lessened after swapping Squash for a road bike) so I am very sensitive on ride. The two cars I tried at the PEC were both standard ride height wise. One was a GTS Coupe with manual and the other a C4 GTS Convertible. Of the two I liked the ride in the Convertible more. I checked and double checked the specs of both with my salesman (he pulled them up on the Porsche system) and both were standard GTS ride height. So I decided the manual was flavouring my feedback (I had a strong adverse reaction to it FWIW - contrary to expectations) hence why I preferred the PDK convertible.

But about 3 weeks ago I realised that the Convertible as standard is -10mm, not the -20 mm of the Coupe. Queue total overthinking and panic as to how the ride would be as by that point my car was built! But really, it is totally fine.

Maybe PDCC is also playing into this? I don't know. I almost ticked it but in the end I decided that I like a car that has some roll and movement. In reality the GTS suspension reacts so quickly I can't feel any body roll even without PDCC. So I am happy I didnt spec it.

For me, standard at -20mm and RWS all the way. I wouldn't bother with Axle lift unless you have a vertical driveway!
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HSC911
Paul Ricard


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 3256
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's so nice Jimmy!

 
  
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weejimmy
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Joined: 26 Mar 2014
Posts: 268
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HSC911 wrote:
That's so nice Jimmy!


Thank you!

So good I tried to post the image three times. Dropped my son for school bus this morning, his comment was "that is just stunning" as he walked away shaking his head. Cool
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Palmball
Trainee


Joined: 05 Dec 2010
Posts: 54
Location: Loughborough


PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weejimmy wrote:
Palmball wrote:
There is one aspect I'm having to get used to, and that's a higher level of vibration at high speed. It feels like a very minor wheel balance issue, with a slight shimmy through the wheel and pedals only. It could be a wheel balance slightly out (big wheels are very sensitive) so I'm getting it checked by my dealer tomorrow, however it's not the same on every surface so I suspect it's more the stiff set-up just allowing more road 'feedback' through.


This doesnt really match with my findings at all thus far. Mine smooths out more the quicker you are going. No harshness or shimmy at all.

The R8 I tried was a V10 Plus with the magnetic dampers and for me that crashed and bucked at low speed and I felt like I was being thumped about in my seat. The GTS feels way better damped to me. Plus I just adore the Alcantara seats. They really lock you in place but are much more confy than the leather seats from my C4s. I found the R8 seats hugely uncomfortable. They were wooden and unsupportive.

I have had lower back issues in the past (lessened after swapping Squash for a road bike) so I am very sensitive on ride. The two cars I tried at the PEC were both standard ride height wise. One was a GTS Coupe with manual and the other a C4 GTS Convertible. Of the two I liked the ride in the Convertible more. I checked and double checked the specs of both with my salesman (he pulled them up on the Porsche system) and both were standard GTS ride height. So I decided the manual was flavouring my feedback (I had a strong adverse reaction to it FWIW - contrary to expectations) hence why I preferred the PDK convertible.

But about 3 weeks ago I realised that the Convertible as standard is -10mm, not the -20 mm of the Coupe. Queue total overthinking and panic as to how the ride would be as by that point my car was built! But really, it is totally fine.

Maybe PDCC is also playing into this? I don't know. I almost ticked it but in the end I decided that I like a car that has some roll and movement. In reality the GTS suspension reacts so quickly I can't feel any body roll even without PDCC. So I am happy I didnt spec it.

For me, standard at -20mm and RWS all the way. I wouldn't bother with Axle lift unless you have a vertical driveway!



I think a couple of things to update / clarify on....

1. I took the car to the dealer today and one of the front wheels was indeed out of balance, which they corrected. Trying it this afternoon and that indeed appears to have corrected the vibration issue. Phew!

2. I totally agree with your comments about the R8's ride and poor level of low speed damping. It was catastrophically underdamped so it bounced everywhere up to about 20mph. At higher speed it was fine so it seems like some really poor low speed tuning of the electronic dampers (I have now driven 4 new shape R8's and all are equally as poor). It simply bounced its way over speed bumps...and beyond.

However the R8 did have a softer sprung ride. The 911's spring rate appears to be much much firmer. I'm not saying this is bad thing because as you say, the 911 is so much better damped, especially at low speed, which will be why it feels more comfortable over things like speed bumps - you feel more of the bump at first but then it deals with the bump in one controlled up and down movement, whereas the R8 would cushion the initial bump more at first, then continue to bounce beyond it which is a far less comfortable feeling.
 
  
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weejimmy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Mar 2014
Posts: 268
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palmball wrote:

I think a couple of things to update / clarify on....

1. I took the car to the dealer today and one of the front wheels was indeed out of balance, which they corrected. Trying it this afternoon and that indeed appears to have corrected the vibration issue. Phew!

2. I totally agree with your comments about the R8's ride and poor level of low speed damping. It was catastrophically underdamped so it bounced everywhere up to about 20mph. At higher speed it was fine so it seems like some really poor low speed tuning of the electronic dampers (I have now driven 4 new shape R8's and all are equally as poor). It simply bounced its way over speed bumps...and beyond.

However the R8 did have a softer sprung ride. The 911's spring rate appears to be much much firmer. I'm not saying this is bad thing because as you say, the 911 is so much better damped, especially at low speed, which will be why it feels more comfortable over things like speed bumps - you feel more of the bump at first but then it deals with the bump in one controlled up and down movement, whereas the R8 would cushion the initial bump more at first, then continue to bounce beyond it which is a far less comfortable feeling.


I'll buy that!

Would I go for -20mm if I was ordering today? Hard to say. Probably yes. It is just so hard to really know the exact spec of what you are driving on a test drive... and how we feel about subjective things like ride changes with our moods anyway.

FWIW mine felt 'very' firm on the way home last night!

Rolling Eyes
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Jenzbullets
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Joined: 27 Mar 2017
Posts: 22
Location: Milton Keynes


PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks absolutely stunning Weejimmy and I hope you're now loving it over the old car Mr. Green
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weejimmy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Mar 2014
Posts: 268
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jenzbullets wrote:
Looks absolutely stunning Weejimmy and I hope you're now loving it over the old car Mr. Green


Definitely lots to appreciate Vs the 991.1 C4s. I am going to have to retrain myself not to bother revving the engine out though. Plus I am missing some of the aural emotion of the 3.8. The 3.0TT sounds very nice in isolation and in many ways is a more cultured sound, but it isn't quite so good at playing the hooligan when you want to make some noise!
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Palmball
Trainee


Joined: 05 Dec 2010
Posts: 54
Location: Loughborough


PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weejimmy wrote:

and how we feel about subjective things like ride changes with our moods anyway.

FWIW mine felt 'very' firm on the way home last night!

Rolling Eyes


Couldn't have put it better myself - it really is true that how you interpret ride quality can depend on a mood a lot, and whether you're 'in' the mood.

Sometimes it can be just nice to get into a big softly sprung car which would be sh!te in the bends, but nicely insulating on rough straight road.
 
  
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weejimmy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Mar 2014
Posts: 268
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost up to 1000 miles and I am beginning to feel like I am getting the measure of the GTS. That's over town, motorway and some nice moorlands roads to open it up a bit so some really varied drives.

Concerns about the ride are disappearing as the miles go on. Yes it is firm, but it is also poised, balanced and outrageously keen to attack bends in a way my 991.1 C4s never was. It feels hunkered down and ready for action. So much more purposeful and eager than the C4s was. Is the RWS contributing to that? No idea, but I love it!

Do I miss the 3.8? Not really. In a back to back trial the 3.8 would always drown it out and sound better, but for everyday use the extra torque, civility and power are hard to criticise. It is a more subtle and cultured sound than the 3.8. Better no. Worse - probably also no! So just different!

I adore the 18 way Alcantara GTS seats. They are so comfortable as you sink into them and are then gripped beautifully. I can really relax into them as opposed to sitting on them and feeling a bit tense as was the case with the C4s.

I love that I can see the wing when it's up. Childish? Probably! But I dont care. It's just nice! I was really surprised to see it in the first place (about half inch above the bottom of the rear window at motorway speeds) but then it went up even higher when I was really pushing. Fantastic! I never had any idea if it was up or down in the C4s. A mate has a 991.2 C2 and says he cant see his - must be a GTS thing. Yahoo! Thumb

The PCM is brilliant. The Satnav is so much better and I love having Google traffic. The voice control also works a lot better. Having controls on the wheel is such a nice thing after having the Sports wheel on the 991.1. The Alcantara feels lovely to hold and the heating is subtle but worthwhile. The silver backs are quick easy to scuff though. Confused

Axle lift has been fun. I dont need it over your typical speed hump if I slow down, but it is reassuring over sleeping policemen and also on sharp inclines. We have one into the par park at work and I use it for that.

I think the Burmester sounds even better in the 991.2. Maybe its having .FLAC files as a source Vs my old iPod with .ALAC in the 991.1, but everything sounds good. Even what I know are poor recordings. I love having so many options for audio as well. Jukebox, SD cards, Bluetooth, Apple Car play streaming Spotify, DAB for TMS. Awesome!

And it is quick. Very quick. Did I mention it was QUICK!

Fuel economy is definitely up 2-3 mpg up in the 3.8 on my commute. Not a stellar improvement, but I'd take +3 over -3!

Negatives really are few. I'm not really a big fan of black wheels, so for me they are OK. They suit the car and I like the centre locks, but I dont adore them. They are right for the car though. Score draw then.

The 3.0 TT stop start is a real pain. I always try to come to a halt gently and whereas the 991.1 would allow me to glide to a stop, then cut out the .2 chops the motor whilst I am still moving. So I end up 20 meters short and it then restarts as I move up over the final bit. Grrr

I like the new way to select options with the sports dial on the steering wheel. I've set Individual to be PSE on, Wing up (I am a tart) and Stop start off. That suits me perfectly for my 'default' as I get the nice pops and bangs but PDK doesn't hold lower gear too long. A really nice addition to the predefined Normal, Sports and Sports plus.

So what's it like overall? Just what it says on the tin really. A more focused, fun and engaging drive than the C4s which I already adored. Definitely a step towards a GT3 in the way it sits low on the road and just wants to get into bends. It reminds me of my old Caterham in that it just seems to goad you to push harder in the corners. Its kindof says "go on them is that all you'v got" where the c4s used to say "OK, if you insist". A number of poeple have commented on how much more mean it looks. My C4s was pretty. This means business!

Would I prefer the ride to be a little softer? No definitely not if it means a loss of focus and alertness or extra float. Occasionally at low speed you get a hit through the car that feels like it makes the car pogo a bit, but that is by exception and it is worth it. I would say it rides like a sportscar and when taken in that context the ride is hugely impressive. Compare it to a saloon (which you almost could with the C4s) and it looks a bit hard. Best not to drive other cars I feel!

So overall? Pleased. Very pleased

Thumb
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BishBosh
Newbie


Joined: 09 Jun 2017
Posts: 28



PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great write up Weejimmy, although I don't quite have the same car as you I do however agree with plenty of your observations.

Not sure about the PCM though...google maps eh? I'll have another look.

18 way seats. Didn't realise I needed them. But yes it is like sitting in it rather than on it.

The ride in my car is also very firm and also prefer that to wallow so thumbs up too.

Spoiler/wing. Grin

Lovely car, Porsche seems to have made a real hum dinger in the 991.2
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weejimmy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Mar 2014
Posts: 268
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did I mention the interior? I ADORE the full GTS interior. Just feels to special and 'together'. Lovely to sit in. Angel






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weejimmy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Mar 2014
Posts: 268
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh ... and the wheels! Thumb



PS - apologies for the hairy knee in the above!
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scoot
Monza


Joined: 09 Mar 2015
Posts: 168
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thumbsup Looks fab and can't wait till mine arrives, only about 6 weeks to go Very Happy
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991.2 GTS MY2018, Manual, Miami Blue
EX - 991.1 C2S MY2013, Manual, Sports Chrono, PSE, Guards Red
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Kiernan
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Joined: 02 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weejimmy, that interior looks fantastic.

Now, would you do me a favour and stop posting pictures as it's doing me no good. I've been told that my car is now due to be built in October and is scheduled to leave the factory 23/10. The wait is already getting to me, but seeing all these fantastic cars is driving me over the edge.

Cheers.
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gtb5
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ride on the 19s is really the most tolerable harshness level for me.
 
  
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