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High Mile GT3

crash7 said:
:agree: If you were the owner caught into adding £10k for engine work, based on NXI's number, you would be into it for 65k, as pointed out on PH your then only £10k off a car with 110k miles less. - With the warranty soon to expire perhaps the risk out weight the reward!

A quick look on PH doesn't show any 997.1 GT3 Clubsports (fitted with PCCB's) South of £90K.

If (when it becomes necessary) you do an engine build on the Broadoak car, you'd do a 3.8 conversion, chuck a nice exhaust on it and have 440-450hp.
That engine would then be good for another 150k miles minimum ....

Stock 997.1 GT3 suspension isn't particularly expensive to overhaul, the PASM dampers are £200 max per corner to refurb, all the other stuff (bushes, ARB links, top mount bearings, coffin arms etc etc) can be replaced, rebushed or fitted with spherical/solid bearings from a host of suppliers such as Tarrett, Elephant, RSS or BBi etc.

Of course you could do a major refurb of everything in one hit from the engine, suspension etc etc and generate a £25-30k bill, but if that's your intention, you may as well buy a 20k mile £90k car, and "worry" that you'll be devaluing it every time you use and add miles to it.....

As ever, it's swings and roundabouts :)
 
It seems with GT cars there's those that want to drive them and those that want to invest in them. Fair do's.

Did this one sell?

As a driver, early 50's leaves a contingency. I don't think its a 57k car personally.

When most people buy a GT3 they are buying a dream car, they don't want to have to explain and justify themselves about the high miles to all their pals and then worry about residual values and the difficulties of selling something like this later on. Imagine in the pub with mates. "I just bought a GT3!" Says new owner. "You jammy lucky feccker" says pals, "how much, what colour, is it a CS, how many miles" says pals. "150k miles" says new owner. "Blimey" says pals....thinking is he bonkers? Even the chap who bought it last time was compelled to post a "blog" to help corroborate his decision:lol: and that diss appeared pretty quickly. There are others, a small ish group, who want to drive a car like this and experience the whole "thing" and see the value from that perspective. From here you really wouldn't know much of a difference compared to a 30k miler. Your lap times would be very similar, your net costs a lot less. All about the price as ever :floor:
 
Senoj said:
It seems with GT cars there's those that want to drive them and those that want to invest in them. Fair do's.

Did this one sell?

As a driver, early 50's leaves a contingency. I don't think its a 57k car personally.

When most people buy a GT3 they are buying a dream car, they don't want to have to explain and justify themselves about the high miles to all their pals and then worry about residual values and the difficulties of selling something like this later on. Imagine in the pub with mates. "I just bought a GT3!" Says new owner. "You jammy lucky feccker" says pals, "how much, what colour, is it a CS, how many miles" says pals. "150k miles" says new owner. "Blimey" says pals....thinking is he bonkers? Even the chap who bought it last time was compelled to post a "blog" to help corroborate his decision:lol: and that diss appeared pretty quickly. There are others, a small ish group, who want to drive a car like this and experience the whole "thing" and see the value from that perspective.

Well it's an interesting perspective, though not one I'm sure I concur with ....

But let me say here and now, I've never felt the need to justify my car purchases to anyone, be they mates. family, forum contributors et all. And I certainly wouldn't feel the need to justify their value, mileage, spec or colour, because quite frankly I don't give a jot what others think.
But furthermore a GT2/3/RS is still that, irrespective of the speedometer reading.
By your rationale a 50k mile CGT with an impeccable service history/folder would be inferior in the minds of your mates down the pub, than an identical though lower mileage car ?

In reality, given the choice between driving around in a 70k mile GT2 or a 10k miles 2 year old E46 M3, I'd take the GT2 all day every day. I may be in the minority in this, but having been around the block a few times with Mezger engined GT cars, I tend to trust my judgement when it comes to "leggy" cars.

Back in 2010 I bought Gavin's old 996 GT2. Considered by lots (mainly internet/keyboard forum "experts") to be a bit "leggy" at 68k miles (IIRC) and 8 years old.

An original panel, totally standard, Basalt black car that had been fettled by Parr and serviced religiously, it cost me the princely sum of just under £35K....

OCrHekk.jpg


And FWIW recently sold by 911 Sport for close to £90k .....

Five years previously I'd paid £55k for a 12k mile Midnight Blue Comfort spec 996 GT2. The car was immaculate, indeed when I placed it on SOR with Tom at 911 Virgin 3 years later (with 32K miles on it) he commented the interior was the best condition he'd ever seen in a 996.

There was only one fly in the ointment, the previous (and only) owner, a very wealthy individual who'd tracked the car, had little or no talent behind the wheel whatsoever, and as result he'd "abused" it to the degree he'd seen off two sets of PCCB's in 12k miles ! !

With hindsight that wasn't THAT surprising, the car handled appallingly, so no doubting the brakes got a severe workout every time it went on track.

Before buying Gavin's old GT2, I got Mike Burke at Sports and Classic to do an inspection on it. He found a few issues, tired, leaking dampers, exhaust manifold to turbo bolts corroded and close to the point of failure (they did) and a corroded/leaking PAS pipe. He also test drove it and said it was "evil" :D

Despite it's tired (though well set up, by Parr) suspension, it drove and handled superbly, and far, far better than the lower mileage, "abused" Midnight blue car I'd previously owned.

My guess is there's plenty of low mileage 997 GT3s out there that have been similarly "abused" by owners with more enthusiasm than skill (or indeed those mistaking ambition for ability).

Which would you rather own ? a 997 GT3 that's been driven vast mileages on the motorway by one sympathetic owner (and which has been his only mode of intercontinental transport) or a similar car that's been owned and tracked by 3 or 4 trackday "warriors" with more enthusiasm than skill. And let us not forget, the car we're talking about has zero overrevs in ANY of it's rev ranges ...

Abused Midnight blue low mileage GT2, or Gavin's 70k mile sympathetically driven, well maintained car ?

Low miles, occasionally thrashed track slag at £90k ? or perfectly driven and maintained mega miles road car at £58k ? For clarity, that's a £32k "saving"....

I'll let you decide :?:
 
my old girl is on 75k miles and barely run in ;-)

its a car for fcuks sake so it should be driven. the more you drive them the better they seem to get and you gel with the car after a long run (if its not a daily of course)

vases and painting are for keeps and looking at. GT cars are for spanking everywhere full tilt
 
Slippydiff said:
Senoj said:
It seems with GT cars there's those that want to drive them and those that want to invest in them. Fair do's.

Did this one sell?

As a driver, early 50's leaves a contingency. I don't think its a 57k car personally.

When most people buy a GT3 they are buying a dream car, they don't want to have to explain and justify themselves about the high miles to all their pals and then worry about residual values and the difficulties of selling something like this later on. Imagine in the pub with mates. "I just bought a GT3!" Says new owner. "You jammy lucky feccker" says pals, "how much, what colour, is it a CS, how many miles" says pals. "150k miles" says new owner. "Blimey" says pals....thinking is he bonkers? Even the chap who bought it last time was compelled to post a "blog" to help corroborate his decision:lol: and that diss appeared pretty quickly. There are others, a small ish group, who want to drive a car like this and experience the whole "thing" and see the value from that perspective.

Well it's an interesting perspective, though not one I'm sure I concur with ....

But let me say here and now, I've never felt the need to justify my car purchases to anyone, be they mates. family, forum contributors et all. And I certainly wouldn't feel the need to justify their value, mileage, spec or colour, because quite frankly I don't give a jot what others think.
But furthermore a GT2/3/RS is still that, irrespective of the speedometer reading.
By your rationale a 50k mile CGT with an impeccable service history/folder would be inferior in the minds of your mates down the pub, than an identical though lower mileage car ?

In reality, given the choice between driving around in a 70k mile GT2 or a 10k miles 2 year old E46 M3, I'd take the GT2 all day every day. I may be in the minority in this, but having been around the block a few times with Mezger engined GT cars, I tend to trust my judgement when it comes to "leggy" cars.

Back in 2010 I bought Gavin's old 996 GT2. Considered by lots (mainly internet/keyboard forum "experts") to be a bit "leggy" at 68k miles (IIRC) and 8 years old.

An original panel, totally standard, Basalt black car that had been fettled by Parr and serviced religiously, it cost me the princely sum of just under £35K....

OCrHekk.jpg


And FWIW recently sold by 911 Sport for close to £90k .....

Five years previously I'd paid £55k for a 12k mile Midnight Blue Comfort spec 996 GT2. The car was immaculate, indeed when I placed it on SOR with Tom at 911 Virgin 3 years later (with 32K miles on it) he commented the interior was the best condition he'd ever seen in a 996.

There was only one fly in the ointment, the previous (and only) owner, a very wealthy individual who'd tracked the car, had little or no talent behind the wheel whatsoever, and as result he'd "abused" it to the degree he'd seen off two sets of PCCB's in 12k miles ! !

With hindsight that wasn't THAT surprising, the car handled appallingly, so no doubting the brakes got a severe workout every time it went on track.

Before buying Gavin's old GT2, I got Mike Burke at Sports and Classic to do an inspection on it. He found a few issues, tired, leaking dampers, exhaust manifold to turbo bolts corroded and close to the point of failure (they did) and a corroded/leaking PAS pipe. He also test drove it and said it was "evil" :D

Despite it's tired (though well set up, by Parr) suspension, it drove and handled superbly, and far, far better than the lower mileage, "abused" Midnight blue car I'd previously owned.

My guess is there's plenty of low mileage 997 GT3s out there that have been similarly "abused" by owners with more enthusiasm than skill (or indeed those mistaking ambition for ability).

Which would you rather own ? a 997 GT3 that's been driven vast mileages on the motorway by one sympathetic owner (and which has been his only mode of intercontinental transport) or a similar car that's been owned and tracked by 3 or 4 trackday "warriors" with more enthusiasm than skill. And let us not forget, the car we're talking about has zero overrevs in ANY of it's rev ranges ...

Abused Midnight blue low mileage GT2, or Gavin's 70k mile sympathetically driven, well maintained car ?

Low miles, occasionally thrashed track slag at £90k ? or perfectly driven and maintained mega miles road car at £58k ? For clarity, that's a £32k "saving"....

I'll let you decide :?:

Good post - I wish I had bought that GT2 with 68k miles - what a fantastic buy in fact I'd say thats the best VFM buy Ive ever heard of for £35k in over 30 years keeping a close eye on the Porsche market. Well done :thumbs:

PS bit tougher these days - 2010 Focus RS made nearly £50k at Silverstone Auctions and Pug GTI close to £40k!!!
 

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