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The route to a GT3

Was going to post here but slippy is just taking the biscuit now :)

..but yeah it was like some standard sporty cars and hatchbacks, then a 996 GT3, and then the rest is history :)
 
FredGT3 said:
79 Ford Capri 1.6S
86 MG Metro
88 XR2 Mk2
89 RS Trubo
83 XR2 Mk1
93 Sierra Cosworth
94 Escort Cosworth
97 Esprit GT3
96 Esprit V8
00 Evo VI (still owned)
91 Excel SE
02 Esprit V8
03 Boxster
04 996.2 GT3
12 997.2 GTS
14 991.1 GT3

The first 911 I drove was a 964 RS, hated it on our local roads and it put me off 911's as I though if this is the best they do! I also wasn't experienced enough to know how to drive it back then.

Totally understandable. I went from a Type UK Impreza 22B (stolen within a month of purchase) to a 964 RS (my first Porsche) and bought 'cause I wanted something hardcore that would fly under the radar (and only those in the know knew what a 964 RS was).

The road test was horrendous, squeaky brakes (Pagid blues) knackered clutch, frequent stalling (my own ineptitude along with the usual 964 RS lightweight flywheel stalling issues) poor steering lock and heavy unassisted steering (the vendor took me through a busy village with several mini-roundabouts on a Saturday morning) boneshaking ride, and a gearbox I struggled with (as a result of it being a left hand drive car).
In all it was an unpleasant and somewhat testing experience, but .....
despite all the above, I could see what a fantastic concept it was, and the ethos behind the car.
I bought the car and the vendor took it to JZM to sort the numerous issues on my behalf.
What appeared from JZM a couple of weeks later was a complete transformation. New brakes, new clutch, de-cat/remap, Cup steeering wheel etc etc.
That was the start of 15 years of 964 RS ownership (on and off) and four different cars.
My passion for them remains undimmed to to this day. Whether I'll be able justify (or indeed afford) to get back into one, time will tell. But as anyone who has driven one on a fast, smooth twisting A or B road will tell you, they are truly wonderful cars.
Here's my "eulogy" to them. Enjoy. :

55 times better than a Boxster ? That depends on the criteria you're judging them by. They're 55 times more rare, of that I'm certain. And that, I suspect, counts for a lot.

I'd say they're 55 times more engaging, tactile and "special" to drive than any Boxster too.

0-60 ? Quite frankly if that's your benchmark for what makes a car great (or not great) you most likely won't get the RS.

Overly stiff ride ? Grow a f*ckin pair (it's an urban myth, so get one with decent, modern tyres (ie not ten year old Michelin MXX's) fresh dampers, sensible geo settings and ride heights, and you'll find them an absolute blast for A & B road hooning.

Build a rep on the cheap ? yep, course it can be done, but it's the little things that make them. Take the ali bonnet for example, lift it up ('cause there's no gas struts to help you) prop it up using the ali strut (who's end goes into a specially formed nut that doubles up as the securing nut for the strut top mount).

Pull on the inner door latch release pulls (formed from doubled up loops of seat belt material) feel the way they release the door latches so mechanically (then try the pastiche of the same idea on the Cayman R and feel how, as a sop to the RS, they've tried to incorporate the same idea into a door trim that wasn't designed for it (neither was the release mechanism) and feel how utterly sh*te it feels in it's action when compared to the original. It's what happens when the marketing men decree what goes into a car, rather than letting an engineer decide.

Put the dainty key into the ignition switch and turn it against the perfectly weighted spring loading of the switch. Just as your wrist starts to run out of articulation, the starter kicks in and the flat six bursts into life. If your foot isn't on the clutch, you'll hear the sound of the gears in the transmission rattling away as the lack of a dual mass flywheel (and the harmonic damping it usually provides) allows the gears to chatter excitedly within their casing.

Sit there and wait for some heat to percolate through the flat six, and soon after you'll be able to hear the thick, glutinous oil coursing through the pipes running the length of the car as the precious life blood is pumped towards the thermostat, only to be sent back to be warmed further without troubling the car's oil cooler.

Press down the floor hinged clutch pedal with it's initially awkward over-centre action, then gently palm the slightly baulky gearlever into first. Press the accelerator expecting the tardy, nee lazy, damped response most modern cars provide, and find this car's powerplant reacts instantaneously and you've just encouraged the rev counter around to 3000rpm, and not the 1200rpm you'd intended.

Try again, but being too timid, you stall it .......

Another attempt, this time you succeed as the car's low down torque aids your franky pathetic attempts to master the over-centre clutch, the hair trigger throttle response and the recalcitrant gearbox.

Out on the open road, the oil temperature gauge shows signs of life, the gearbox becomes less baulky and the steering starts to lighten with speed.

Twenty minutes in and the engine is now nicely warmed through. Let the fun commence ......

From your gentle fifth gear cruise, change down into third and slowly depress the long travel, floor hinged throttle pedal all the way to it's stop. The induction noise hardens and increases in volume, the drivetrain grumbles as you accelerate through the rev range and the lack of dual mass flywheel creates harsh resonances that sound more akin to a coffee grinder. But keep accelerating and they'll disappear to leave just the mechanical sound of the flat six along with it's induction noise and the cooling fan shifting vast quantities of soothing, cool air over the barrels and cylinder heads buried within the bowels of that nondescript looking engine compartment.

At 6,800 rpm in third the gamee's all over and its time to start the process all over again in fourth.
A quick, gentle lift of the throttle, along with a short, quick prod of the clutch, allows you to thread the perfectly weighted, short(ish) throw, gear lever through the gate.

A corner approaches, so you lift off the throttle and change down, you get back on the throttle and turn the steering wheel, initially the helm feels stodgy, heavy and unresponsive, you curse the lack of power steering as the nose seems unwilling to cooperate with your request for a change in direction.
But wait, the wheel in front of you isn't the sole method of altering the car's trajectory, next time try using the brakes to keep the weight over the front wheels whilst you turn them, then carefully chose the moment to get back on the throttle (hard) to utilise both the grunt of that flat six AND the traction afforded as a result of its position over the rear wheels.

Suddenly 260hp seems more than enough to make indecently rapid progress, but more than that, you're a simply massive part of the process of going fast, you have to be, because without your guiding hand, your perfect timing, your ability to deftly come off the brakes and seamlessly reapply the throttle, this car doesn't steer, it needs, no relies, on you to manage it's imperfect weight distribution.

It's hot sweaty work in the summer, no aircon along with no insulation means that a large part of the heat generated by that 3.6 litre engine finds it's way into the cabin. Soon your back will be wringing wet and that "moist" feeling is only exacerbated by the leather facings on some of the most perfectly formed bucket seats ever to grace a car. Supportive enough to enable you to retain control without having to hang onto the steering wheel, but not so all enveloping as modern race seats.

On the right roads, driving experiences don't come much better, or indeed more intense.

And when you've had your "hit", you won't feel need to race home, instead you'll be happy to potter at 6/10's, watching as other far more powerful cars overtake you, safe in the knowledge that despite what the manufacturers of their cars may tell them, their owners will have little or no idea what tactility, engagement and fun behind the wheel really are.

Finally you'll arrive home, hot, sweaty and possibly slightly deaf..... You'll undo your seatbelt, remove the keys from the ignition, wind your window up and step out.When you slam the door shut, two things will stand out :

Firstly the delightful noise the door makes when it closes. Partly a function of it's bank vault build quality, and partly the fact that it's unencumbered by door pockets, airbags, central locking motors, electric windows or their switchgear.

And the second thing that will stand out when you slam the door shut ? A light, gentle, barely discernible tinkling noise...... wink

Those that have owned and driven these wonderful cars will most likely know what this "tinkling" noise is, whilst those that think they're an overpriced, underperforming, anachronism, probably won't. But neither will they care........
 
Great write up on the 964RS Experience....

I almost feel like I've owned one after that!!

Ownership sounds like the holy grail to me.

It's a shame that these are now out of the stratosphere on price!

Just out of curiosity....Does anyone know what the 964RS bottomed out at and when??

IIRC 175K+ will get you LHD glory, 200K+ for the proper side??
 
jotaking said:
Great write up on the 964RS Experience....

I almost feel like I've owned one after that!!

Ownership sounds like the holy grail to me.

It's a shame that these are now out of the stratosphere on price!

Just out of curiosity....Does anyone know what the 964RS bottomed out at and when??

IIRC 175K+ will get you LHD glory, 200K+ for the proper side??

The Midnight blue car cost me £23,500 in 2001/2, but I was "late to the party". Cars were selling at £17-18K in '99/2000.
My 993 RS cost me £34,500 .....
 
ras62 said:
H you have mail :thumb:

Hi Rob, have responded :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

The multiple :grin: will make sense once you've read my response :D
 
As ever, great to hear of your prolonged foray into Porsches top shelf H. Really knocks you back a bit when you see it typed out like that;)

What really must be taken away from it all though, is that in the darkest corners out there somewhere lie creatures of your ilk, willing to do what is right in the world and take these wonderful cars and use them; not just use them but play with and hone them till they are just right for you, and sod what anyone else thinks. Hats off to you Henry :thumb: and thanks for taking the time to pass on your considered and well written thoughts on the 964RS.
 
After wrestling with company cars, then opting out and running a BMW 335i, I entered the world of 911's.

Firstly a 2009 997.2 C2S. This created a lust which I still have to this day. Thoroughly enjoyed and it proved to be far cheaper to run than the BMW.

After 2 years, I upgraded to a 12 month old 991 C4S which I have just sold to fund a 2014 991.1 GT3.

This won't be so much of a daily as the previous models. I run an Abarth 595 daily now......
 
jotaking said:
Just out of curiosity....Does anyone know what the 964RS bottomed out at and when??

I used to know a guy that sold one for £16k (which was at a significant profit, despite having bent it and had it repaired), but I am not sure of the year.

[He subsequently made strong returns on an early delivery 458 and a used 4 litre 997 RS, so you are not allowed to express sympathy... ;) ]
 
Slippydiff said:
Totally understandable. I went from a Type UK Impreza 22B (stolen within a month of purchase) to a 964 RS (my first Porsche) and bought 'cause I wanted something hardcore that would fly under the radar (and only those in the know knew what a 964 RS was).

Thanks for posting Henry. The car I drove was the Rubystone press car, it was owned by a neighbour. Living in the fens our roads were too bumpy for it and as I said as a younger man I didn't get the whole 911 driving experience.

I did take some notice of one on a private track day at Anglesey where my V8 Esprit was more than a match for a well known GTR owner and his 355, I couldn't touch the 964 RS though and was marvelling at its ability under braking and through the corners.

It was my wife wanting a Boxster and finding that I enjoyed it that persuaded me to try a 911. Jamie at Paragon let me try out the 996 GT3 and I bought it immediately. I don't think I will be without a a 911 for some time now, I appreciate them now.

I do remember seeing 964 RS adverts at the low point and deeply regret not buying one!

Regards
Fred
 
As a kid a Porsche was always the 'supercar' I wanted to own but it took me quite a while to get there gradually climbing the car ladder for 35 years to get to my ultimate goal.....and it was absolutely worth the wait to get there. Next car is likely to see me downsizing back to where I started; a MK1 Escort.
My car journey excluding daily drivers;

7 x Mk1 and Mk2 Escort Sports, Mex's and RS2000's

2 x Avon Lotus sunbeams

TVR 400SE

Subaru Impreza 22B

Noble M400

B7 RS4 4.2 TTS supercharged 615BHP

Porshce 997 GT3RS
 
Slippydiff said:
Here's my "eulogy" to them. Enjoy. :

55 times better than a Boxster ? That depends on the criteria you're judging them by. They're 55 times more rare, of that I'm certain. And that, I suspect, counts for a lot.

I'd say they're 55 times more engaging, tactile and "special" to drive than any Boxster too.

Wow, inspiring stuff! You won't find a bigger advocate of the boxster than me (in particular the 986), but even I can't argue with your thoughts.

A friend has a 964RS (in a stable which also includes a 996 GT3RS, 997.1 GT3RS & 991.1 GT3RS) which I haven't driven. From the people I know who have driven it it draws mixed reactions. The bloke who owns it absolutely loves it - obviously!

Great thread this too, some really interesting journeys to the GT3. Its intriguing how some guys have a list of relatively inexpensive cars and then 'boom' a 991 GT3! I'd wager there are as many interesting life stories to how people got to the GT3 as there are car stories...

:thumb:
 
ELA said:
As ever, great to hear of your prolonged foray into Porsches top shelf H. Really knocks you back a bit when you see it typed out like that;)

What really must be taken away from it all though, is that in the darkest corners out there somewhere lie creatures of your ilk, willing to do what is right in the world and take these wonderful cars and use them; not just use them but play with and hone them till they are just right for you, and sod what anyone else thinks. Hats off to you Henry :thumb: and thanks for taking the time to pass on your considered and well written thoughts on the 964RS.

Hi Rich, hope you're well ?
That's very kind of you, but I'm merely "tinkering" when compared to the scale of your current and past projects .... !!
Hope you got your transmission woes sorted ?
 
ragpicker said:
Slippydiff said:
Here's my "eulogy" to them. Enjoy. :

55 times better than a Boxster ? That depends on the criteria you're judging them by. They're 55 times more rare, of that I'm certain. And that, I suspect, counts for a lot.

I'd say they're 55 times more engaging, tactile and "special" to drive than any Boxster too.

Wow, inspiring stuff! You won't find a bigger advocate of the boxster than me (in particular the 986), but even I can't argue with your thoughts.

A friend has a 964RS (in a stable which also includes a 996 GT3RS, 997.1 GT3RS & 991.1 GT3RS) which I haven't driven. From the people I know who have driven it it draws mixed reactions. The bloke who owns it absolutely loves it - obviously!

Great thread this too, some really interesting journeys to the GT3. Its intriguing how some guys have a list of relatively inexpensive cars and then 'boom' a 991 GT3! I'd wager there are as many interesting life stories to how people got to the GT3 as there are car stories...

:thumb:

HaHa I know sweary Pete too!!

Ive also had the pleasure of driving his 964RS and it is indeed a fine car.
 

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