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996ttalot
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 1266
Location: Horley Gatwick


PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:40 pm    Post subject: 996 c2 project Reply with quote

So sure there will be some interest in sections of this project.

Essentially given a 140k mileage 996 c2. Sound car, good compression, no scoring etc. Goal - want to be able to track it and have fun, but still need to drive it on the road.

Car needed a fair bit of generally maintenance first like radiators, starter motor, actually quite a list, but let's get to the interesting parts.

Suspension
1. Ohlins
2. RSS Adjustable LCAs
3. RSS Rear toe steer kit with locking
4. H&R Arbs
5. All new top mounts
6. Few other general parts

Transmission
1. LWFW - only weighs 6.5kg instead of 13.5kg
2. Upgraded clutch
3. LSD

Brakes
1. Stock calipers are fine for track usage
2. Girodiscs - fronts are 340mm (stock 317mm) Rears 325mm (stock 298mm)
3. Braided Lines, SRF, Pagid29 pads
4. Increased brake ducting

Engine
1. Better oil pan for track usage
2. Larger intake and plenum
3. Full Kline system with 200 cells and Kline Manifolds.
4. Tuning by us

At the moment, we are just waiting on the exhaust and intakes, and then we do the tuning.

Will update with results.
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996ttalot
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 1266
Location: Horley Gatwick


PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More pics....
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pye21
Trainee


Joined: 11 Mar 2014
Posts: 56



PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a decent project.

Not seen the larger Girodisc kit before, any idea o a cost for the fronts?
 
  
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Harv
Suzuka


Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 1074



PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice project Ken, will watch this thread with interest, those discs look huge against the old calipers and something I have planned but with mods to allow fitting of 6pot cayenne calipers.

Do you plan to decat the exhaust?

Noted your reference to mapping, are you able to do this on the 4wd cars with in house software? I will need to have my 3.9 build optimised once it's running.

Thumb
Harv
 
  
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Stuart
General
General


Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 5026
Location: Waterworld

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ken, this is basically exactly what I did for my old C2 except with KWV3, M&M exhaust and EVOMSiT tune, everything else the same. Ended up being a lovely drive, very compliant, lots of poke and lovely sound. Look forward to your updates.

Thumb
 
  
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Marky911
Österreich


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 977



PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice project Ken,

When fitting the flywheel do you balance it with the clutch as one package?
I'd love to fit one at some point but I know they create imbalance/vibration that the M96 crank can do without.
Omcebi know they're safe to fit it will definitely be on my list.

Anyway, watching with interest. Pop Corn
 
  
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RyanT964
Newbie


Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 14



PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Ken - pleased to see you've posted this... can't wait to get it back now and get cracking driving it!

Sorry guys for the intro this way - I'm a recent mover to the UK (from South Africa) and a long-time Porsche enthusiast. I've also owned a 964 RS, a boxster 986 S, a boxster 987 S, a 996 Carrera 3.6, a Panamera diesel, a 997.1 Carrera S, a Cayenne S and a 991 Carrera S.

I currently have a 2016 Cayenne diesel and a 2015 991.1 Carrera GTS (having brought the GTS with me in my move) - but having permanently emigrated here, I decided to get a more dedicated track car and one that I could also use for club events, etc.

I also have done some racing in SA and have won and participated in some of the local championships - so coming to the UK with its abundance of tracks and equipment is a dream come true... ! Most of this has been in FWD Polo Cup and Production Cars however and I'm keen to find a decent RWD series here to join (was thinking Ginetta?)

So, the 996 was an easy choice - To me they're fantastically under rated Porsches and easy to mod, relatively inexpensive and wonderful drivers cars! I found a reasonable one (2002 996.2 Carrera 3.6 in basalt black with black interior) and took a chance (I didnt do a PPI but did a lot of listening and driving to see what the issues might be). I also knew NineExcellence from this forum and a few others and knew there was only one place for me to take the car once it was mine!

Ken has been fantastic - always keeping me informed, trying to find the right deals for me and making quality and valued suggestions along the way. I'm looking really forward to getting this back now.

I will also try post some pictures of the car (and some of the others from the list above)

Cheers guys - hope to do a more formal intro when it's back in my hands!
 
  
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Osh
Indianapolis


Joined: 19 Nov 2012
Posts: 2331
Location: Bristol


PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morning Ken

going to watch this with great interest.

Can i ask you why you chose the Kline system over everything else on the market; I like them a great deal and have the whole system on my short list for the future - but interested to know why you chose them.

Pop Corn


Osh
 
  
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Osh
Indianapolis


Joined: 19 Nov 2012
Posts: 2331
Location: Bristol


PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RyanT964 wrote:
Thanks Ken - pleased to see you've posted this... can't wait to get it back now and get cracking driving it!

Sorry guys for the intro this way - I'm a recent mover to the UK (from South Africa) and a long-time Porsche enthusiast. I've also owned a 964 RS, a boxster 986 S, a boxster 987 S, a 996 Carrera 3.6, a Panamera diesel, a 997.1 Carrera S, a Cayenne S and a 991 Carrera S.

I currently have a 2016 Cayenne diesel and a 2015 991.1 Carrera GTS (having brought the GTS with me in my move) - but having permanently emigrated here, I decided to get a more dedicated track car and one that I could also use for club events, etc.

I also have done some racing in SA and have won and participated in some of the local championships - so coming to the UK with its abundance of tracks and equipment is a dream come true... ! Most of this has been in FWD Polo Cup and Production Cars however and I'm keen to find a decent RWD series here to join (was thinking Ginetta?)

So, the 996 was an easy choice - To me they're fantastically under rated Porsches and easy to mod, relatively inexpensive and wonderful drivers cars! I found a reasonable one (2002 996.2 Carrera 3.6 in basalt black with black interior) and took a chance (I didnt do a PPI but did a lot of listening and driving to see what the issues might be). I also knew NineExcellence from this forum and a few others and knew there was only one place for me to take the car once it was mine!

Ken has been fantastic - always keeping me informed, trying to find the right deals for me and making quality and valued suggestions along the way. I'm looking really forward to getting this back now.

I will also try post some pictures of the car (and some of the others from the list above)

Cheers guys - hope to do a more formal intro when it's back in my hands!


Morning Ryan - what an impressive list of cars/Porkers; where are you based m8...??

Start a new thread and chuck some piccies up of all your previous and current porkers and get along to a local meet and say hello


Osh
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 12809
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RyanT964 wrote:


Sorry guys for the intro this way - I'm a recent mover to the UK (from South Africa) and a long-time Porsche enthusiast .........
........ Cheers guys - hope to do a more formal intro when it's back in my hands!



Lurk2 for 7 years !

Great to finally hear from you Ryan. A belated Welcome to 911uk.

Looking forward to hearing more from you and to seeing loads of pics of your cars - past and present - . Thumb
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2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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996ttalot
Approved Trader


Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 1266
Location: Horley Gatwick


PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: Final update - car completed Reply with quote

Hi,

So the full Kline exhaust system with headers turned up this week. The previous week we had done some work on the TB/Intake and finally this week able to tune the car.

I think it is worth pointing out that the LWFW makes a huge difference to how the engine responds initially and is a great benefit to the driving experience.

In terms of hp, prior to the change (stock car) made 281whp (315hp). You can see from the chart below that we picked up approx 20whp (25hp) on top. Actually it would be interesting to see top of the 4th gear as you can see near the end of the chart, once the shift from 3rd to 4th gear is made, it starts to climb up further into the 315whp range. A little immaterial, the car is night and day difference and I am sure Ryan will post his comments once he collects the car on Saturday.

It is fully set up for track usage. The differential works very well and the brakes as always from Giro are very reassuring.

Ken
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RyanT964
Newbie


Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 14



PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken,

Now you've gone and got me all excited!!!

Wow, that's quite a difference in whp? Those additional exhaust bits and tuning certainly make quite a difference (as I'm sure your general service did too).

Can't wait to try this out - saturday better roll on quickly!

Cheers,
Ryan
 
  
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996ttalot
Approved Trader


Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 1266
Location: Horley Gatwick


PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Osh wrote:
Morning Ken

going to watch this with great interest.

Can i ask you why you chose the Kline system over everything else on the market; I like them a great deal and have the whole system on my short list for the future - but interested to know why you chose them.

Pop Corn


Osh


Hi

Basically we have tried and tested most systems - setting aside the fact that imo exhausts are a personal preferences in terms of noise, customers generally want us to recommend. The great benefit apart from quality and price is that there is zero drone or resonance that we have found in most systems, and this is worse for tiptronic cars. The other benefit is that Kline exhausts are not shouty at idle or low rpm - to the majority we find that is what customers want - that is not to say that I don't like shouty exhausts either but most want the best of both worlds.

We also fit sharkwerks as well to a lot of cars.

These are generally the two manufactures that we recommend.

Hope that helps

Ken
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996ttalot
Approved Trader


Joined: 21 Sep 2009
Posts: 1266
Location: Horley Gatwick


PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RyanT964 wrote:
Ken,

Now you've gone and got me all excited!!!

Wow, that's quite a difference in whp? Those additional exhaust bits and tuning certainly make quite a difference (as I'm sure your general service did too).

Can't wait to try this out - saturday better roll on quickly!

Cheers,
Ryan


It will feel like a new car. Great alternative to a GT3 for track!
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996ttalot
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bit more fine tuning and with a fresh tank of vpower in the car, car made 311whp (348hp). So that is a good 30hp plus over standard.
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crash7
Monza


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 205



PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work Thumb

Giro discs, if the discs are larger, but calipers standard how did you get them to fit?

H&R ARB's are these solid or hollow? How do they compare with the GT3 items? Are they heavier?

Cheers
 
  
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pye21
Trainee


Joined: 11 Mar 2014
Posts: 56



PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice project this, very good gains from the exhaust!

Anyone any idea on the price of the Kline system with manifolds? I'm currently looking for an exhaust and I might struggling to find a price on the manifolds.
 
  
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RyanT964
Newbie


Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 14



PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[img][/img]


[img][/img]


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[img][/img]
 
  
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RyanT964
Newbie


Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 14



PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject: Brilliantly - well done Ken and team! Reply with quote

Hi guys,

Will write a short review this evening... suffice to say I'm in love with what's been done!

Cheers,
Ryan
 
  
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RyanT964
Newbie


Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 14



PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:06 pm    Post subject: Quick initial review Reply with quote

Hi all,

Been busy moving house on the weekend so excuse the later response!

Suffice to say I love the car and what it feels like, how it performs, etc... lets begin at the heart of the matter:

Engine
Turn the key and... wow! It barks into life with a sound and vigour that is absolutely a step up from the "old" car! Blip the throttle and the revs immediately rise - and then fall just as quickly.The LWFW immediately makes its presence felt. There is a slightly higher idle speed that quickly settles to 'normal'... once warm you can give it a blip or two and enjoy the new found harmony from the exhausts - what a difference!
Pull off and the clutch bites quickly and with little travel... its easy to stall the car until you gauge the bite point.
On the move, the low down torque feels slightly lacklustre - but once the revs get over 2500 to 3000 rpm it takes off like a scalded cat and with the energy of a firework.. .again, just wow! What a difference?
It's quite easy to feel the difference in the short-shift gear change from the 997 - shifts are slick, short and precise and each change as you approach the redline brings a variety of sounds into the cabin - from a low bassy thrum right up to a sonorous howl - chasing the limit never sounded this good previously?!?!
The power progression is also smooth and, as expected, the inertia in the engine is almost non existent. No longer does the car slowly wind its way up, it literally accelerates its way through each gear and the pace is actually quite unexpected - truthfully, it feels almost as fast as my 424bhp 991 GTS? The only thing I find missing is that on the over-run, the exhaust is probably a bit too quiet? But, for the benefits that the tuning, the exhaust and the flywheel bring, would I change anything?
Not a chance!


Suspension
Driving off, one is immediately struck by the pliancy and low speed ride comfort - wasn't this supposedly a sportier suspension setup, stiff and more uncompromising? From the drivers seat it feels the opposite, absorbing small bumps yet still communicating the surface nicely.
Pick up the pace and then you start to feel the more precise wheel control... its bumpy for sure, but not unreasonably so and it still feels as if each wheel remains connected with the surface, travelling through the compressions rather than the wheel skipping over them and running out of ideas.
Larger bumps, dips in the road and surface changes remain well within its capabilities and its almost as if the car eggs you on, further challenging you to find some blacktop that tests the suspension more completely. When you do find the gaps in the road, rough concrete and broken tarmac it still retains its control - but you can now definitely feel you're in a tightly spring sports car.
I didn't find it bottom out anywhere (even though some of the compressions left me wondering when it would happen, not if it would)... but either I wasn't pushing hard enough or even this remains within its set of skills!
From a cornering perspective, the car corners flat and firm - mid corner bumps don't throw it off course and it seems to find a front-end purchase that is markedly different from old, not to mention rear-end grip that feels mighty! Turn and the car follows the line immediately - no slop in the steering and no delay in the direction change... It must feel brilliant under track conditions and I cant wait to see how this can be used to rotate the car under a little trail-braking into some corners?
Most impressive for me was the control under braking and accelaration... the dive and squat are almost absent and even though minimal, still manage to impart that feeling of weight transfer that's so critical to 'fun driving'
Overall, the suspension, ARB's, springs and geo are a winner - and its the first time i had to get out and check the badge at the back didn't say "GT3" or similar... its that good!


Brakes
If I thought it couldn't get better, I was wrong! The brakes are probably the most noticeable improvement on the car - they feel great, full of progression, firm pedal and without a hint of lock-up. They're very easy to modulate and, whether your'e mid-corner and need a light touch, or firmly braking in a straight line, they never feel overdone and lacking sensitivity.
The ABS works like a dream still and the stopping distances are simply staggering! No doubt on track these are going to prove one of the best investments in the car...


Drivetrain
Particularly here referring to the LSD now fitted... who knew it would make such a clear difference to the way the car drives, corners, brakes and transitions? Out of junctions there is absolutely no lost momentum, the rear tyres simply finding oodles of grip and shunting the car forward like nothing I've experienced in it before... It almost feels like it wants to break traction but yet maintains its push and a slight waggle from the tail simply allows it to build on that momentum.
Quite interesting is the behaviours of the car under straight line deceleration - you can feel the diff working and generating grip even on the (now) unloaded rear wheels - strange sensation and one I still need to get used to (not to mention how to get the best out of it!)



So - that's a quick summary... first track day is beginning august and I hope to feed back from there. Ive left the settings in the same clicks that Ken set it up with and would probably describe these as my (close to ideal) "fast road" setup. Lots to experiment with still and lots to learn!

Big question most of you are probably asking is "Is it worth it?"
These upgrades weren't cheap (nothing worth doing ever is cheap) but I can wholeheartedly say the early signs aren't just encouraging, they're downright brilliant! Considering a base (good) car is now about £13k that means that for under £40k you can have a GT3 alternative that you can thrash, tune, keep coming back for more and genuinely use with abandon - not sure where you'd get that kind of fun in a normal GT car without risking a serious investment? Best of all, Ken and his team have been absolutely superb, dealing with every question Ive had, every suggestion I've made and making sure the finished product was nothing short of perfect. There are one or two small issues I still need to take care of - but without doubt, having 9e and Ken deliver a product like this makes you wonder whether you truly need a race car to enjoy these lovely summer evening track days...


With this setup, I genuinely am looking forward to my first outing!


Cheers,
Ryan
 
  
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