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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: It is in next Tuesday Reply with quote

Hi,

I will update on whatever SCS Porsche report back on for those with an interest.
My most preferable outcome is that there IS (strangely) something wrong but it is a simple fix eg AOS unit or whatever.
I don't want them to find something really bad like the issues on 'a very few' early Gen2's. Currently 997.2s hold a good reputation for reliability (why I bought one) and I am holding onto that for my car.

Also, I would be a little baffled if they say 'it is all fine' and just very hungry for oil. I guess pixies could be stealing it in the night as I do live in Ottery Saint Mary haha.

Regards
Glen Wells
 
  
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AdeD
Hockenheim


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 641



PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: It is in next Tuesday Reply with quote

glenwells wrote:
Hi,

I will update on whatever SCS Porsche report back on for those with an interest.
My most preferable outcome is that there IS (strangely) something wrong but it is a simple fix eg AOS unit or whatever.
I don't want them to find something really bad like the issues on 'a very few' early Gen2's. Currently 997.2s hold a good reputation for reliability (why I bought one) and I am holding onto that for my car.

Also, I would be a little baffled if they say 'it is all fine' and just very hungry for oil. I guess pixies could be stealing it in the night as I do live in Ottery Saint Mary haha.

Regards
Glen Wells


Thought Pixies were only in Cornwall? Times must be hard if they have to venture over the tamar Very Happy Very Happy ...

Will keep an eye out for you as i'm only in Exeter... Well at weekends i am anyway Very Happy
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s70rjw
Monza


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 197
Location: York


PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any news ? thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
 
  
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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Next week Reply with quote

Hi

No news yet the car is not in until next Tuesday.

ta
Glen
 
  
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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject: Update - car back from evaluation Reply with quote

Pretty gutted as bad news.

The car has notable cylinder bore scoring on 6 and 3 along with more minor scoring on 2 other cylinders. Cylinder 6 also has mottling/degradation of the cylinder wall lining and cylinder 3 has a heat spot in blue/purple on the cylinder wall.

Upshot is 10Kish estimate for rebuild - crankcases, pistons, associated equipment and labour.

Garage have said damage is rare, I am just unlucky.

Fired an email off to the garage earlier informing them of the situation. Porsche garage were really good and will provide a report to the purchase garage on request.

Guess the thankless task of trying to get it fixed. Expect them to wrangle but would be nice if they did not.

Just to reiterate all credible sources I have spoken to say 997 Gen 2 engine issues are way down there and should not be on your worry list.
Only caveat being that if you have recently purchased one and it is using quite a bit of oil an engine check is not expensive to put your mind at rest or will get it sorted.

Anyhow there are far worse things going on in the world right now and a knacked engine doesn't amount to a hill o beans - keeping it in perspective.

Regards
Glen Wells
 
  
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Halcyon
Montreal


Joined: 02 Nov 2015
Posts: 598
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't offer any help or advice.. I just wanted to say that I'm gutted for you and I really hope that you get an amicable resolution to the situation.

Chin up Thumb
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s70rjw
Monza


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 197
Location: York


PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Update - car back from evaluation Reply with quote

glenwells wrote:
Pretty gutted as bad news.

The car has notable cylinder bore scoring on 6 and 3 along with more minor scoring on 2 other cylinders. Cylinder 6 also has mottling/degradation of the cylinder wall lining and cylinder 3 has a heat spot in blue/purple on the cylinder wall.

Upshot is 10Kish estimate for rebuild - crankcases, pistons, associated equipment and labour.

Garage have said damage is rare, I am just unlucky.

Fired an email off to the garage earlier informing them of the situation. Porsche garage were really good and will provide a report to the purchase garage on request.

Guess the thankless task of trying to get it fixed. Expect them to wrangle but would be nice if they did not.

Just to reiterate all credible sources I have spoken to say 997 Gen 2 engine issues are way down there and should not be on your worry list.
Only caveat being that if you have recently purchased one and it is using quite a bit of oil an engine check is not expensive to put your mind at rest or will get it sorted.

Anyhow there are far worse things going on in the world right now and a knacked engine doesn't amount to a hill o beans - keeping it in perspective.

Regards
Glen Wells


Glen.
Really sorry to hear your news.
I wish you the best of luck in getting the car back on the road.

Bob
 
  
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DucatiRob
Suzuka


Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Posts: 1211
Location: Milton Keynes

2006 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to here this Glen! As you say there are much worse things going on at the moment.

Hope your original garage of purchase plays ball and you can get a good resolution!
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effy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 Feb 2014
Posts: 276



PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear of this Glen, but then I think you were expecting this wasn’t you? I find it appalling that such a low mileage expensive vehicle will warrant a £10K + rebuild on it’s engine, Porsche should be ashamed of them selves, we save long and hard to purchase one of there vehicles and this happens. I really hope you get a result from the warranty company or the retailer Thumb
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nigel99
Suzuka


Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1135
Location: Surrey

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As it's still under 6 months since you bought the car, you're still entitled to give it back for a full refund as it's not fit for purpose. That's the avenue I'd be taking......
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Phil 997
Fuji


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 9508
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nigel99 wrote:
As it's still under 6 months since you bought the car, you're still entitled to give it back for a full refund as it's not fit for purpose. That's the avenue I'd be taking......


very good point Nigel and true. Thumb
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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Thanks for the comments Reply with quote

The garage I purchased the car from rang me this morning.

They asked if I would consider a rebuild with Hartech - new liners etc rather than replacement crankcases.
I guess they think a Hartech rebuild would come in less than the 10K quoted by my local Porsche Specialist garage for crank and associated parts replacement.

I am not sure how far Baz and Hartech have progressed with that element of work on the Gen2's. I know they have been hugely successful in earlier models 996's and 997.1s. My local specialist use them on occasion for works like that.

Regarding the option of return the vehicle for a refund I believe that is only an option if the offer of replacement or repair is not satisfactory. The Sale of Goods Act has been replaced by the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
If you buy a car after 1st October 2015 the covering law is different. You only have a definitive right of return and full refund if it is less than 30 days, unless I have read it incorrectly.

The option is still there if agreement cannot be reached on a suitable replacement or repair even after 30 days has expired.
I do have more leverage as the problem was reported on day 2 of ownership.
The garage, at this point, are offering a rebuild using Hartech. Not sure how that will go if Hartech confirm they are not yet relining Gen2's. That would mean back to the 10K option which I think is causing them to sweat a little. They may even offer to buy it back then chuck it out through the trade at a reduced price still being less than a 10K rebuild. Not very honorable but we know it goes on.

I love the car and returning it at this point is not my first option. I am not sure how a rebuild will affect the residual value of the vehicle down the line. I will however stand firm on a full cosha rebuild none being at my expense otherwise pursue for a refund with full vehemence. As i have said before I am no stranger to the courtroom - prosecuting not standing in the dock lol.

Thanks for the support and good advice that has been offered. I will ping Baz an email to see where the land lies on their work. They are a blookin long way from Devon though! Maybe my garage can do the work but have the relining done with Hartech who knows we shall see.

regards
Glen Wells
 
  
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Stever845
Monza


Joined: 10 Aug 2016
Posts: 151
Location: Oxfordshire

2005 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pop Corn
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nigel99
Suzuka


Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1135
Location: Surrey

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the utility on the Citizens Advice Bureau...

Code:
You’re legally entitled to a repair if something goes wrong with the car. It’s easier within the first 6 months.

‘Faulty’ means the car is not:
•‘of satisfactory quality’ - it should do what you’d expect for its age, price and type
•‘fit for purpose’ - eg if you asked for a car that would pull a caravan, it has to be able to do that
•‘as described’ - it has to match the advert or the description the trader gave you

If the problem fits into at least one of these categories, take it back to the trader before 25 January 2017*. You have longer if you only want a repair - and if the trader takes too long (or it causes you too much inconvenience), you’ll still be entitled to a refund.

* I entered the purchase date as 26th December 2016 in the utility on the website.


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/
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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Current Law Reply with quote

Thanks for the posts. Agree with the post above. At the moment not overly concerned as to an outcome, early days yet though.

The new/current legislation still refers to such thing as quality, fit for purpose etc which is good. There is also an extension foe purchasers for recompense beyond what was there previously.

Consumer Rights Act 2105
section 9
9 - Goods to be of satisfactory quality
(3) The quality of goods includes their state and condition; and the following
aspects (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of
goods—
(c) freedom from minor defects;

is probably a starting point.

Section 11 can be cited in this case

11 Goods to be as described

The garage sold the car as being 'a quality approved car having been fully checked prior to purchase'. Mmmm don't think so haha.

Having gone past 30 days I do have to give them a chance to offer an acceptable course for redress to the issue. If I do not approve their offer it now automatically gets referred independently which is a new change in the law. After that it is replacement - not really an option or a full refund.

It is going to be an interesting few days probably weeks for me.

Regards
Glen
 
  
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Poker2009
Hockenheim


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 711
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure Hartech can manage the rebuild - and will end up a great outcome for you.

This will eventually narrow the spread between Gen 1 and Gen 2 prices, as clearly the Gen 2 is also vulnerable to engine problems.
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timm996
Monza


Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 238
Location: nottingham


PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear of your news, but glad to hear there was a reason for your concern and it was not normal. I would personally look at the rejection under sale of goods, etc and then buy another one, this time with full bore inspection.

The reason being is that a stripped rebuilt engine isnt as a good as an untouched one, I had mine rebuilt (10k) and it weeps oil from two places plus other things I dont want to go into.
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silvermilnec
Österreich


Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 939
Location: Leeds West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glen sorry to hear your news! You sound like you know what your doing! Just be fair but firm!

Good luck!
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Poker2009
Hockenheim


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 711
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

timm996 wrote:
The reason being is that a stripped rebuilt engine isnt as a good as an untouched one, I had mine rebuilt (10k) and it weeps oil from two places plus other things I dont want to go into.


Is this really true? Isn't it dependent on who did your rebuild, and the aftercare you received? Bit of a sweeping statement.
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glenwells
Silverstone


Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 102



PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Not going well! Reply with quote

It has been nearly two weeks since I informed the garage about the results of the engine check by SCSPorsche.
Being given the runaround. I am now dealing with the third person at Tetbury Audi. Many emails back and forth and couple of phone calls. The Warranty company said I could take it to a qualified garage locally due to Tetbury being 100 miles from where I live.
I even sent them the pictures from the borescope examination.
The Tetbury sale manager made statements about going to Hartech, then being in communication with a local Porsche dealership to look at 'all my options' then to a specialist to put a report to the warranty company!!

My opinion is all of that was BS - they have not even approached SCSPorsche for a copy of the report or even phoned them about the findings and what needs to be done!

I asked the sales manager who this 'specialist' was and did not get a reply. Later the Head of Business for Tetbury Audi sends a curt email informing me to get the car back to Tetbury Audi for them to examine it!! What gives we are round in circles wasting time and my money as I paid SCSPorsche.

Also the Warranty company told me to go through the garage in the first place as the engine was sold defective so not a warranty claim!
I am speaking with my solicitor tomorrow as I do not like what has happened so far or where it is going.

Need to get the Car to Tetbury next week and hopefully the train back as no car has been offered. Fast turning into a steaming T**D pile.

Regards
Glen
 
  
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