Newbie to forum & Porsche ownership, any advice welcome

Cheer's lads will keep posted fully agree on the 996 - 997 GT3 conversion comment also.

I'll keep these comments in mind when I get to doing the haggling. Considering they already must have lost all profit on the car anyway £7k engine rebuild bill then I think I'll need to haggle hard, he's taking my BMW on trade in so perhaps can move figures around there to get himself some profit back on whats probably been a bad buy for the dealer on the 997.

Ohhh well punters 1 vs Trade 0 (for a change)

Securing your first Porsche is always a special occasion, I hope it goes well and congrats in advance.

Monkeynutz said:

@OP Sounds like you have done your home work with a good approach to buying into this marque :thumbs:

Funny that you mentioned that you decided against another BMW purchase after being hit with the depreciation bat. I was in the exact same position late last year and even though BMW were doing everything they could to move me from my 420d to a new M4 I just couldn't make the math work for me anymore knowing what I was going to lose in 24 months. I lost over 20k in that car in 24 months When I told the dealer what I finally made up my mind to do he just said 'Don't blame you be sure to bring it around to show me when you get it, I love 911s'!

I assume any engine re-build will come with a warranty as will the purchase from the dealer and if so that should take some worry out of the equation. If everything else stacks up it sounds like a decent buy . Good luck you will not be disappointed and yes the batteries on these cars can be a bit crap if not run often or maintained with a trickle charger

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Are you serious about loosing £20k on a 420d in 24months.

A brand new 420d sport is only £35k but £28k after discount

Impossible to buy a 2 year old 420d for £8k!! (£28k- £20k depreciation)

Also moving from a 420d with a retail price of £35k (prior to discount) into a new £75k M4 is also rather ambitious.

Also performance wise a std M4 will leave a 997.1 carrera, no contest.

However after a 420d anything is going to feel fast!

DP911 said:

MNC911 said:

seeforez said:

Hi and welcome, a rebuilt car is always a plus, but not a normal situation you are in?

What spec and how much did you pay if you want to know if its a good buy that is the question?

What exactly is getting rebuilt and what parts with and what happens if other things need replacing?

Theres a lot of things that could be replaced while the engine is out but hard to say in advance ???? :?:

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:agree: +1, where to start??? The list is as long as it can be. 12yrs old... I'd just quite literally start at the front and work backwards. If you're new to Porsche I'd open the laptop and watch a many YouTube inspection videos as possible, it's faster than reading. Having said that DO NOT BUY THE CAR UNTIL YOU HAVE IT INDEPENDENTLY CHECKED BY A PORSCHE CENTRE OR PORSCHE SPECIALIST. Forget history and paperwork etc, (well not entirely) the only piece of paper you should be interested in and that's a full 111 check. Aesthetics can be put right during ownership. Do your research on items like front condensers, coil packs, brakes, etc to get an idea of running costs. Most of the 911's that are 9lemons are because people like the idea of driving a 911 but fail to be able to run one with the costs. Often resulting in a high performance car that has been run on a shoe string and a case of get rid when before it won't make it onto a dealership to part ex. They can all look pretty with some fairy washing up liquid and a slap of polish. That's where the experts come to their keen eyes and fancy plug in computers. :thumb:

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Thanks for advice mate Cath is doing a full inspection for me before I sign off anything since I know nothing about the cars I'll leave it to the experts.

In terms of me personally & where I'm coming from its from a brand new 330d m sport plus m performance fully loaded all singing all dancing spec from new by me 2 years ago at a cost of 50k & now at best it's probably worth 25k so in my mind I think I could own that 911 for what I've paid in depreciation & I'm looking for something with some charm a measure of reliability as it will be my daily driver but I'm also not going to be shy or kid myself I'll need to either future proof the thing or firefight a few issues over couple years ownership anyway at least. What I've blown like most new car owners on depreciation I would rather sink into something with better residuals and accept higher running costs are all good with me I just don't want to be on the hard shoulder every few weeks and I've not ran a car this old before so looking for best advice.

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Where are these prices comming from ??

A fully specced 330d msport is around £35k new with discount not £50k

I've just specced a brand new 435d m Sport convertible fully loaded at £54k
However after discount the car will cost £41k

This spec is at least £12k more expensive than a fully loaded 330d sport

What is going on, on this forum!! Prices being constantly exaggerated, it's becoming a joke

New BMW M cars do however loose an aweful amount in the first few years.
Went to view an 18month old BMW M5 last week.
1 owner, 4800 miles fully loaded with 5 year service plan.
Car was £89k new and in mint condition with 18 months BMW warranty.
Car was available for £42k !!

List price for the wife's M240i Cabrio was £44,700, but pre reg car with 80 miles was £31,000 Can't see why anyone buys a new BMW unless you lease it these days!

Lovely car to drive, but it is not a 911 and even my brother in laws M4 is not as involving or balanced to drive as my C2S 997.1

I can screenshot my sales order invoice from BMW.
330d m sport
M sport plus
M performance kit
M performance steering wheel (3k option alone)
Nav
Bluetooth
Heated seats
Connected drive
I drive etc etc basically fully loaded was circa £49-50k on the road price 2 years ago. Sell it now 25k you would be lucky on that.

In terms of the 420d prices again I was talking about a fully loaded m sport plus m performance type 4 series again around about 45-50 on the road. Go into your local stealer and have him add up all the options your 35 will quickly get over 40 for even a few decent options.

The other thing to consider is that both my 330d & MCN911's 420d would have been bought 2-3 years ago when the model's are fresh on the road and again maybe £10% discount or a dealer deposit contribution is possible at that stage but now maybe you are getting a bigger discount somewhere because your buying a model that's not far away from a facelift or discontinued but for love nor money no bmw dealer I know of would give away 20-25% off the list price and all the options for free basically when a car is launched I wish I knew one and I would have signed with them and saved myself 15k depreciation or options for free or whatever way you look at it the on the road price your taking the hit of half the car within 2-3 years easy.

Bikeracer1098 said:

DP911 said:

MNC911 said:

seeforez said:

Hi and welcome, a rebuilt car is always a plus, but not a normal situation you are in?

What spec and how much did you pay if you want to know if its a good buy that is the question?

What exactly is getting rebuilt and what parts with and what happens if other things need replacing?

Theres a lot of things that could be replaced while the engine is out but hard to say in advance ???? :?:

Click to expand...

:agree: +1, where to start??? The list is as long as it can be. 12yrs old... I'd just quite literally start at the front and work backwards. If you're new to Porsche I'd open the laptop and watch a many YouTube inspection videos as possible, it's faster than reading. Having said that DO NOT BUY THE CAR UNTIL YOU HAVE IT INDEPENDENTLY CHECKED BY A PORSCHE CENTRE OR PORSCHE SPECIALIST. Forget history and paperwork etc, (well not entirely) the only piece of paper you should be interested in and that's a full 111 check. Aesthetics can be put right during ownership. Do your research on items like front condensers, coil packs, brakes, etc to get an idea of running costs. Most of the 911's that are 9lemons are because people like the idea of driving a 911 but fail to be able to run one with the costs. Often resulting in a high performance car that has been run on a shoe string and a case of get rid when before it won't make it onto a dealership to part ex. They can all look pretty with some fairy washing up liquid and a slap of polish. That's where the experts come to their keen eyes and fancy plug in computers. :thumb:

Click to expand...

Thanks for advice mate Cath is doing a full inspection for me before I sign off anything since I know nothing about the cars I'll leave it to the experts.

In terms of me personally & where I'm coming from its from a brand new 330d m sport plus m performance fully loaded all singing all dancing spec from new by me 2 years ago at a cost of 50k & now at best it's probably worth 25k so in my mind I think I could own that 911 for what I've paid in depreciation & I'm looking for something with some charm a measure of reliability as it will be my daily driver but I'm also not going to be shy or kid myself I'll need to either future proof the thing or firefight a few issues over couple years ownership anyway at least. What I've blown like most new car owners on depreciation I would rather sink into something with better residuals and accept higher running costs are all good with me I just don't want to be on the hard shoulder every few weeks and I've not ran a car this old before so looking for best advice.

Click to expand...

Where are these prices comming from ??

A fully specced 330d msport is around £35k new with discount not £50k

I've just specced a brand new 435d m Sport convertible fully loaded at £54k
However after discount the car will cost £41k

This spec is at least £12k more expensive than a fully loaded 330d sport

What is going on, on this forum!! Prices being constantly exaggerated, it's becoming a joke

New BMW M cars do however loose an aweful amount in the first few years.
Went to view an 18month old BMW M5 last week.
1 owner, 4800 miles fully loaded with 5 year service plan.
Car was £89k new and in mint condition with 18 months BMW warranty.
Car was available for £42k !!

Click to expand...

Prices also start at more like £37k than £35 for the m sport saloon.

http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/330d-m-sport/7244/bmw-330d-m-sport-review-price-specs-and-0-60-time

You keep saying "with discount" but again unfortunately at the time 2 or 3 dealers I spoke to Harry Fairbairns in Glasgow and couple of Douglas Park branches were like "quite alright sir that is the price & the car's sell not bad without lumping 25% off the list price on "discount." So again new model within 6-12 months on the road you might get 10% discount or dealer deposit schemes but lumping off 10-15k your haggling skills must be far and away better than mine.

So again if you take the £37k
consider
£2k m sport plus
£5k M Performance kit
£3k steering wheel M Performance
NAV professional prob another 1500
Heated Seat's, reversing camera's, concierge service etc

Your getting there to what my definition of the phrase "fully loaded" really means, again the car's would be somewhat cheaper if "fully loaded" only means some business nav & the standard 18's etc

I'm new to the forum and maybe some people claim ridiculous things but I did not inflate the price or loss of my car to try to sound "cool" or "rich" or some other stupid notion I can post the sales invoice if it's in doubt at this stage but my main means of the post was the sheer awful nature of lost money on an exec saloon in 2 years from new yes you can own a 997.1 for what you'll lose & that is my plan going forward I'll have the Porsche bought outright in 12-18 months vs taking silly amounts of finance for a new bmw audi or merc just to drop like a stone while I finance the loss I don't think the car's are worth it and when you compare something like a gen 1 997 your really on to a bargain basement supercar by comparison to what your euro exec box is gonna feel like and fleece your bank balance for

Phil 997 said:

I think you in the right ball park with your expected discount up to a 1k sound spot on. RE the tarted 996 ,IMO there is nothing wrong with giving your car the aggressive look and stance, but to badge it a GT3 or RS when its not, will just get the P taken out of you. these are stunning cars in any of the variants and will bring comments but I can imagine nothing worse than when asked directly is it a GT3 and you have to say mmmm no :coat:

There are some lovely internal, external and engine mods you can enjoy doing to these cars without trying to make it something its not.

Keep us posted on progress :thumb: :thumb:

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Agree Phil, anyone is entitled to do what they like with their own car regardless of what anyone else thinks is right or wrong, if the owner is happy with it then that's all that matters. Some people go to great lengths and spend lots of money transforming their cars to higher spec models, nothing wrong with that in my book!

Bikeracer1098 said:

Monkeynutz said:

@OP Sounds like you have done your home work with a good approach to buying into this marque :thumbs:

Funny that you mentioned that you decided against another BMW purchase after being hit with the depreciation bat. I was in the exact same position late last year and even though BMW were doing everything they could to move me from my 420d to a new M4 I just couldn't make the math work for me anymore knowing what I was going to lose in 24 months. I lost over 20k in that car in 24 months When I told the dealer what I finally made up my mind to do he just said 'Don't blame you be sure to bring it around to show me when you get it, I love 911s'!

I assume any engine re-build will come with a warranty as will the purchase from the dealer and if so that should take some worry out of the equation. If everything else stacks up it sounds like a decent buy . Good luck you will not be disappointed and yes the batteries on these cars can be a bit crap if not run often or maintained with a trickle charger

Click to expand...

Are you serious about loosing £20k on a 420d in 24months.

A brand new 420d sport is only £35k but £28k after discount

Impossible to buy a 2 year old 420d for £8k!! (£28k- £20k depreciation)

Also moving from a 420d with a retail price of £35k (prior to discount) into a new £75k M4 is also rather ambitious.

Also performance wise a std M4 will leave a 997.1 carrera, no contest.

However after a 420d anything is going to feel fast!

Click to expand...

Yup, 41k - a month after launch in 2014 for the Gran Coupe, built to order (that was my second mistake but I had to have it at the time) and loaded - M Sport, HK hifi, M Sport Adaptive, sports auto, etc etc... was struggling to get close to 21k for trade in price and private sale wouldn't have been much better. My first mistake was doing it on a PCP but it was great for my circumstances at the time however the cost of ownership is steep. Add the front loaded interest, payments, deposit and it makes for even worse reading...

In Oct/Nov 2016 they were giving massive discounts on the M4 and I was tempted and very close to pulling the trigger on an available build slot in Dec for something around 65k. Yes the M4 is blisteringly quick but it wasn't all that I thought or hoped it would be when I eventually got to spend some time with one. It felt kinda..well 'meh'. It just felt like a faster version of my 420d and it was an all too familiar space. I had spent 10 years or more lusting after one and when the time came I just wasn't that keen on it. Maybe the 420d M Sport is just a brilliant car and I would have another one but next time I will buy 12-18 months old.

By chance I came across a similarly priced alternative in the 718 Cayman at an open event run by Porsche. I drove the 718 S and a new C4S and from that moment on I knew my next car wasn't going to be a BMW. I started doing more research into cost of ownership for new and used cars based on my budget. 6 months ago a 2010 C4S seemed like a good idea at the time and threads like this and current market prices fill me with a warm glow, even more so when I consider what that M4 would have cost to own in the same period

Monkeynutz said:

Bikeracer1098 said:

Monkeynutz said:

@OP Sounds like you have done your home work with a good approach to buying into this marque :thumbs:

Funny that you mentioned that you decided against another BMW purchase after being hit with the depreciation bat. I was in the exact same position late last year and even though BMW were doing everything they could to move me from my 420d to a new M4 I just couldn't make the math work for me anymore knowing what I was going to lose in 24 months. I lost over 20k in that car in 24 months When I told the dealer what I finally made up my mind to do he just said 'Don't blame you be sure to bring it around to show me when you get it, I love 911s'!

I assume any engine re-build will come with a warranty as will the purchase from the dealer and if so that should take some worry out of the equation. If everything else stacks up it sounds like a decent buy . Good luck you will not be disappointed and yes the batteries on these cars can be a bit crap if not run often or maintained with a trickle charger

Click to expand...

Are you serious about loosing £20k on a 420d in 24months.

A brand new 420d sport is only £35k but £28k after discount

Impossible to buy a 2 year old 420d for £8k!! (£28k- £20k depreciation)

Also moving from a 420d with a retail price of £35k (prior to discount) into a new £75k M4 is also rather ambitious.

Also performance wise a std M4 will leave a 997.1 carrera, no contest.

However after a 420d anything is going to feel fast!

Click to expand...

Yup, 41k - a month after launch in 2014 for the Gran Coupe, built to order (that was my second mistake but I had to have it at the time) and loaded - M Sport, HK hifi, M Sport Adaptive, sports auto, etc etc... was struggling to get close to 21k for trade in price and private sale wouldn't have been much better. My first mistake was doing it on a PCP but it was great for my circumstances at the time however the cost of ownership is steep. Add the front loaded interest, payments, deposit and it makes for even worse reading...

In Oct/Nov 2016 they were giving massive discounts on the M4 and I was tempted and very close to pulling the trigger on an available build slot in Dec for something around 65k. Yes the M4 is blisteringly quick but it wasn't all that I thought or hoped it would be when I eventually got to spend some time with one. It felt kinda..well 'meh'. It just felt like a faster version of my 420d and it was an all too familiar space. I had spent 10 years or more lusting after one and when the time came I just wasn't that keen on it. Maybe the 420d M Sport is just a brilliant car and I would have another one but next time I will buy 12-18 months old.

By chance I came across a similarly priced alternative in the 718 Cayman at an open event run by Porsche. I drove the 718 S and a new C4S and from that moment on I knew my next car wasn't going to be a BMW. I started doing more research into cost of ownership for new and used cars based on my budget. 6 months ago a 2010 C4S seemed like a good idea at the time and threads like this and current market prices fill me with a warm glow, even more so when I consider what that M4 would have cost to own in the same period

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Yeah I wouldn't think you could get in a new 4 series sport of any kind months after launch for less than 40k. The 420d I looked at was going to be M performance kit again & similar extras to the 330d I got. Again it was 45-50k by the time you stuck some options on it.

I've downsized in terms of my overall budget on this gen 1 997 as I'm not taking lot of finance & have a high residual car to boot I'm thinking it will be nice to have some cash sitting on my driveway for a change rather than a big BMW pissing money down the drain & I've had 6 of them now big brand loyalty to BMW over the years but I think my e46 330ci Clubsport was the best 1 I owned they've became more incredibly fast & more incredibly boring at the same time since then.

Like you I've lusted after M3's M4's previously but the only thing I've sat in that had that real feeling of special like a Porsche 911 was my mates e46 M3 CSL I'd have 1 of them in a minute of course I think the new M4 is stunning and gorgeous car but is it all that different to a big engine 3 or 4? Not really by that much to be honest and the main issue for me is paying that depreciation when they are other very interesting options i.e. the 997 in fact you could be in a 997 Turbo for the price of an M4 so again comparing the performance of a carrera to the M4 is also bit dumb like for like moneywise your in a 911 Turbo and I don't think an m4 could keep pace with it but that's not the only reason lot of people by Porsche over BMW it's the sense of occasion the Porsche has versus the practical fast euro box BMW and as I've said I'm big BMW fan it's virtually the only car I've ever owned I've had 7 cars & 6 were BMWs. So I do love them there just not a 911 & I just can't justify paying the depreciation on them anymore.

Still waiting on the 997 at Cath Burrows patience is a virtue lol.

However I managed to get an extended test drive in another 997 today & I have to say coming from the 330d bm that thing was awesome.

2 totally different cars & you have to respect the BMW for what it is but that's my first real drive of a 911 & nothing has ever even come close.

The mechanical feel of the car is beautiful, every little bit of the road & what the tyre's are doing just runs through the wheel on to your hands & when you get up to the red line that noise is nasty wow awesome cars I don't think I'll ever go back to a BMW now and I was a diehard for 10 years.

Really looking forward to owning my first 911 now.

Good to hear things are still progressing and now you will be certain that the wait is worth it.

After a good drive I still find myself learning or becoming aware of new things about the car. It's fun to drive again

Monkeynutz said:

Good to hear things are still progressing and now you will be certain that the wait is worth it.

After a good drive I still find myself learning or becoming aware of new things about the car. It's fun to drive again

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Apparently they've spent another £1500 on tappets as Cath wasn't happy with a rattle on idle and checked it out down to that. So in total £8500 they've spent on the engine rebuild.

I'd say considering I'm getting it around £23k, 2005 with 50k miles on the clock and it's in good order otherwise it represents really good value for an S with the rebuilt engine. In a way ive possibly just got lucky finding 1 that's just went pop cos it takes the worry out the bill coming to me anytime soon.

Sounds like a very lucky find mate, very reassuring that Cath was not going to let it go until they were happy with it. Keep us posted :thumb: :grin:

Phil 997 said:

Sounds like a very lucky find mate, very reassuring that Cath was not going to let it go until they were happy with it. Keep us posted :thumb: :grin:

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I will obviously I've done my research and little bit of helping to luck on it on this, really looking forward to owning my first 911 I hope it's as much fun as my test drive was on the other 1 cos I was smiling ear to ear.

I'm sure she'll do a good job on the rebuild she has a good reputation and ex hartech staff guess we need to trust the people that know these car's to get round the unfortunate fault from Porsche.