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poppopbangbang
Nürburgring


Joined: 25 May 2015
Posts: 480



PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: It's Back - 3.7 Content *Now With Prelim Results* Reply with quote

So my old knacker came back on Friday, I was meant to go and get it about a week earlier than this but everything that could kick off has kicked off at work and I've been a bit snowed under!

At least it was a nice weekend for it! Very Happy



I'm putting some gentle miles on it at the moment ready for heading to the dyno late next week to see what it will make. It has A LOT more low RPM torque than it ever did previously which is going to be due to the extra 300CC and valve seats that aren't half a million KMs old Laughing

From the original engine we kept the castings, crank, rods, inlets and exhaust manifolds and that's about it. Full list of everything that went into it as follows:

- Original 3.4L block/crankcase machined by Capricorn to carry 100mm bore liners converting it to a closed deck design with additional machining work to provide additional coolant flow around the liner tops.
- CP 100mm 3 ring forged pistons with reduced skirts to minimise frictional losses.
- Original 3.4L heads rebuilt and mildly fettled with new valve seats, single piece valves, new Porsche lifters, springs, retainers etc. new standard spec cams.
- Every chain, guide and associated parts replaced with new Porsche supplied bits.
- Big ends and mains replaced with new Porsche supplied items.
- IMS bearing converted to pressure fed roller bearing - best option given the OE dual row is NLA.
- Original rods crack tested and fitted with ARP fasteners.
- Every gasket and o-ring seal (no matter how small) replaced with new Porsche supplied bits.
- Twin chamber Porsche "Motorsport" Air oil seperator fitted in place of standard item.
- All fasteners replaced with new.
- All belt rollers, tensioners etc. replaced with new.

Oil system and cooling system carried over from the old engine as these clearly worked very well indeed along with the GT3 throttle body, low loss intake and equal length exhausts. Given the heads now flow a bit better and the valves are less shrouded from the larger bore, it has another 300CC and less frictionals I'm hoping it will make similar power to a Mk1 GT3. We'll find out next week Laughing

My main aims with this motor were to make a better road car version of the M96, considering the mileage it had managed there wasn't a lot to do reliability wise but I did want to find some more performance without compromising its road manners, going larger bore and doing this with capacity rather than cams etc. is really the only way to do this as I really didn't want to end up with a peaky engine that needed revs to make good torque. It is afterall a road car used for lots of long journeys so needing to string it out to the last shift light all the time is tiring at best. I also really didn't want to go up in stroke (hence not using the 3.6 crank to make a 3.9) as in my experience those engines with the lowest mean pistons speeds generally live the longest. With a 78mm stroke and a 7250RPM limiter the worst case mean piston speed is still only 18.85MPS which is pretty low all things considered and should lead to a happy and long lived engine Very Happy

I think that is about it now for modifications aside from building a display into where the rev counter currently lives I have no more plans for the car aside from pile the next 300K miles onto it as quickly as possible.

It is so nice to have the old girl back on the road Very Happy

Last edited by poppopbangbang on Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16360
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pop Corn
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15263
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PPBB Great read mate, car looks lovely and a fantastic well thought out rebuild. Thumb Thumb
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911tom
Watkins Glen


Joined: 22 May 2012
Posts: 2027
Location: Buckinghamshire


PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a story your car is! Please keep us all posted.
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Dammit
Watkins Glen


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 2198



PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great news, did the rebuild come in according to your budget?
 
  
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poppopbangbang
Nürburgring


Joined: 25 May 2015
Posts: 480



PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit wrote:
Great news, did the rebuild come in according to your budget?


Yes no surprises or dramas. Autofarm were great to deal with, as they always have been in my experience. I think we were a bit under budget in the end.
 
  
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996lee
Hockenheim


Joined: 26 Aug 2014
Posts: 706
Location: Nottingham


PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool
Look forward to seeing the dyno results Thumb
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8244
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What made you decide to go with a roller bearing, I would have gone with a single row and spaced it due to lateral movement if the dual row wasn't available?

Looking forward to the hp figures with a 3.7.
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kurlykris
Indianapolis


Joined: 30 Jun 2014
Posts: 2434
Location: Warwickshire


PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will be interesting to see your dyno results and general improvement with this upgrade, I`ve been thinking of doing the same thing Thumb

What were the costs involved if you don`t mind disclosing, via PM if necessary Thumb
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poppopbangbang
Nürburgring


Joined: 25 May 2015
Posts: 480



PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

infrasilver wrote:
What made you decide to go with a roller bearing, I would have gone with a single row and spaced it due to lateral movement if the dual row wasn't available?
.


Do you mean axial movement? If you do mean axial then the FAG TB type bearings have an axial load capacity of 60% of their radial load capacity so there is little point using a single row bearing for axial load handling reasons when you can do it with a roller bearing. We've used the same bearing design in F1 gearboxes where they have very high transient axial loads with great success. Plus as a company has put their money where their mouth is and paid to have a specific TB type bearing made to do this job it seemed rude not to give it a go, what's the worst that can happen Laughing
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8244
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poppopbangbang wrote:
infrasilver wrote:
What made you decide to go with a roller bearing, I would have gone with a single row and spaced it due to lateral movement if the dual row wasn't available?
.


Do you mean axial movement? If you do mean axial then the FAG TB type bearings have an axial load capacity of 60% of their radial load capacity so there is little point using a single row bearing for axial load handling reasons when you can do it with a roller bearing. We've used the same bearing design in F1 gearboxes where they have very high transient axial loads with great success. Plus as a company has put their money where their mouth is and paid to have a specific TB type bearing made to do this job it seemed rude not to give it a go, what's the worst that can happen Laughing


Axial is probably the word I was looking for, although I'm not a mechanical engineer, I do hope that roller bearing solution works out.

Gearboxes are quite tight in their axial movement compared to the IMS design on a 996 which almost floats in comparison. LN put their companies reputation on their ceramic bearing some years ago but ended up denying all responsibility for the engines that failed due to the design so I'm not sure the roller is the tried and tested route yet?
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poppopbangbang
Nürburgring


Joined: 25 May 2015
Posts: 480



PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

infrasilver wrote:


Gearboxes are quite tight in their axial movement compared to the IMS design on a 996 which almost floats in comparison. LN put their companies reputation on their ceramic bearing some years ago but ended up denying all responsibility for the engines that failed due to the design so I'm not sure the roller is the tried and tested route yet?


Road car gearboxes are.... a 2K onwards F1 box with a gearbox mounted clutch and first and second motion shafts that are essentially fully floating in the bearings at certain points in the gear change is something quite different Very Happy
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16360
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

infrasilver wrote:
I do hope that roller bearing solution works out.


Snap.


I'd've been tempted to leave the original in once measured for play. Was there any noticeable wear on it PPBB?
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ELA
Barcelona


Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1290
Location: Nurburgring Doorstep


PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds just about the perfect solution ppbb Thumb
Knowing you I'm sure you managed to do the running in miles within an afternoon Grin
Look forward to hearing how the performance compares once you have the chance to really open her up
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Harv
Suzuka


Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 1204



PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really good to hear she's back up an running PPBB Thumb
 
  
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HSC911
Long Beach


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 6479
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harv wrote:
Really good to hear she's back up an running PPBB Thumb


Agree

Great stuff!

Thumb
 
  
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BHZ661
Barcelona


Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1325
Location: Milton Keynes


PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking forward to the updates . thumbsup
 
  
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Y2K
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Posts: 471
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BHZ661 wrote:
Looking forward to the updates . thumbsup


+1

Great to see the car back.
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crash7
Montreal


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 624



PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PPBB

Off-topic, could I ask what ride heights are you running on your car?, taken form the Porsche suggested points.

How close is your FVD oil pan to the floor with those heights?

Cheers
 
  
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Marky911
Indianapolis


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2399



PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking good poppop. Good to see it's back.

What benefit does the Motorsport AOS have please? And how does it compare price wise? I know most Porsche Motorsport parts are usually cheaper.

I'm interested in the IMS bearing goes as the roller type is top of my list should I need to change mine.
 
  
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