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Mr 911
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Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Posts: 36



PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 8:57 am    Post subject: 964 ...... A quickish investment Reply with quote

Hi chaps & chapesses

I'm considering buying a 964 Cab or Coupé as prices seem to be on the up

The car I'm considering was sold 2 years ago for £27k and now it's back at the same Indy for £40 that's a £13k in 2 years! I don't know of any other investment where you'd get a better return, although like the Stock Market, I accept things can go "Southbound" too!!!

According to the Indy, prices for 964's are on the up and are showing no signs of stopping...........

Any views anyone???

Kind regards,

Kev H
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Dream911
Indianapolis


Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2377
Location: London


PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doends on the car if £40k is a good price or not.

If you are buying for investment purposes then avoid, tips, cabs, targa's, high miles as it'll be a lot harder to sell at the end. Actually it's a bit pot luck if your'll make any money should you buy now and sell in 2 years time. If you want a nice car to drive then you might end up spending a good chunk on servicing and repairs, insurance etc.

Would be more comfortable saying your'e get a couple of year free motoring than making a profit so if you ARE buying for investment reasons you need to go in eyes wide open. I know it looks attractive in the current market but it's not as easy at it seems. Of course it's always easy with hindsight. Thumb

So buy a 964 if you want to enjoy the experience of owning/driving one but don't buy for investment reasons.
 
  
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badlands
Nürburgring


Joined: 05 Feb 2015
Posts: 397
Location: London


PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with dream911. Unless you have £70k+ to get a low mileage 964 to stow away then for around £40k best to get a high milleage C2 or C4 manual coupe and drive the snot out of it knowing that you're motoring for free.

Don't think £40k would get you that from a dealer now, more likely a tiptronic Targa or cab. But private sale you could. Although there's a red C4 at JZM on at £45k that looks pretty tidy if you could stretch your budget a bit. Maybe a bit overpriced as has been for sale a while now and the price has dropped a couple of times.
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stichill99
Monza


Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 198
Location: Scottish Borders


PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 12:44 pm    Post subject: 964 Reply with quote

Don't even think of going there as an investment at this time. If you had been writing 3 years ago well that would have been very different. I spoke to the Porsche Indy dealer that I bought my 993 off at the Fastlane show last Sunday.
I commented that I keep an eye on his website and said the 964 c2 that he had on at £46k took many months to sell. He agreed and said that the cars have become too expensive and there is very very few phone calls.
If you buy from a dealer just now and the market does rise you will need a huge rise to cover maintenance costs and the dealers profit margin.
The market has really slowed and I think it would be very easy to catch a cold just now!
 
  
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Zingari
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 11478
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 1:03 pm    Post subject: Re: 964 Reply with quote

stichill99 wrote:
Don't even think of going there as an investment at this time. If you had been writing 3 years ago well that would have been very different. I spoke to the Porsche Indy dealer that I bought my 993 off at the Fastlane show last Sunday.
I commented that I keep an eye on his website and said the 964 c2 that he had on at £46k took many months to sell. He agreed and said that the cars have become too expensive and there is very very few phone calls.
If you buy from a dealer just now and the market does rise you will need a huge rise to cover maintenance costs and the dealers profit margin.
The market has really slowed and I think it would be very easy to catch a cold just now!


+1 Grin They wont make 50%+ 'profit' in the next 2-3yrs like most have now. They will reach a level where other factors come in to play - very low mileage, impeccable provenance, something special/limited etc and then ultimately the high price paid to 'protect' any investment will ruin the enjoyment of actually using it.

Targa were under the radar until 18 months ago but now they've got a fresh appeal. Coupes will always be the winner, C2 being the one everyone seems to want especially for track work.

You can still find some gems and I'd look for a tatty example at the right price that can be restored in a budget that doesn't explode what the future value will be. You have a wider spectrum restoring and modifying 964 whereas 993 its a no-no unless you want to be tarred and feathered at a meet for your wiper widget being 3mm off angle Rolling Eyes

I've not seen the 964 at JZM but they dont sell shoite and it sounds cheap. 3yrs ago they had a restored C4 with 120k miles at £29k that I'd thought would never sell at the price - but it did, the day before I was going to buy it PC Having said that I didn't come out of it too bad missing that one (and several others) Cool

964.............a quickish investment? No. Some have like the chap who paid £5k last year for a 29k miles 'barn find' C4 which went straight into Silverstone Auction making £42k Surprised

I didn't buy mine as an investment, but because I liked it and if I kept it 10yrs and got back all my money that's a good deal to me for free motoring Thumb
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badlands
Nürburgring


Joined: 05 Feb 2015
Posts: 397
Location: London


PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wise words from Zingari. 3mm out lol Floor

Fyi here's the red one at JZM

http://www.jzmporsche.com/porsche-for-sale/classic/964-carrera-4-for-sale-868
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Zingari
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 11478
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

badlands wrote:

Fyi here's the red one at JZM

http://www.jzmporsche.com/porsche-for-sale/classic/964-carrera-4-for-sale-868


Looks tidy Thumb Top end rebuild by Unit11 so the engine will be 'bob-on'. wide bolster seats a plus (look OK but I'd swap the backs over to even out the wear) and red carpet a bit different. Sits right and AC is a bonus.

I suspect someone (Boxsey?) on here or 964 crew will know the car.

I'll give it to the end of the week before a desposit is taken Grin
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Mondrian
Monza


Joined: 30 Apr 2014
Posts: 155



PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rapid rise could also lead to a rapid drop.

If however you are a betting man then I would go for C2 as its still relatively undervalued, that compared to all else, Targa, Cab, C4 and even RS. if you have a proper look at for sale ads you will see a lot more RS for sale than C2 and that has been the case for past year or so with only 2 or 3 C2's for sale at any given time and even then its split between RHD & LHD. However as already pointed out £40k is not going to get you one unless its a cat D or needs expensive repairs.
 
  
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3558
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it were me, a left hand drive manual C2 coupe would be the one to look for. However, if you are thinking purely investment over buying it to drive it : it is possible that you have already missed the boat.
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MarkGolf
Nürburgring


Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 375
Location: S.London


PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, missed the boat in regards to the 964, there are other cars out there though but that's for another thread.
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WasteGate
Newbie


Joined: 25 Feb 2017
Posts: 3



PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: 964 Prices on the Increase Reply with quote

I live in France and always keep abreast of 964 Values.

I have a 1991 964 Turbo2 (965) and, when browsing a Dealership that specialises in Up-Market, Pristine Vehicles of all Marques, l saw the exact same Model 964 Turbo2 (965) as my own - Colour - Year - Mileage - Interior Trim - Condition etc.

The car was being offered for a whopping 130,000 Euros !!!

I don't know if this is any indicator of the way the market for 964 Turbo2s is going, but l was very pleasantly surprised.
 
  
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Zingari
Shanghai
Shanghai


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 11478
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:20 am    Post subject: Re: 964 Prices on the Increase Reply with quote

WasteGate wrote:
I live in France and always keep abreast of 964 Values.

I have a 1991 964 Turbo2 (965) and, when browsing a Dealership that specialises in Up-Market, Pristine Vehicles of all Marques, l saw the exact same Model 964 Turbo2 (965) as my own - Colour - Year - Mileage - Interior Trim - Condition etc.

The car was being offered for a whopping 130,000 Euros !!!

I don't know if this is any indicator of the way the market for 964 Turbo2s is going, but l was very pleasantly surprised.


They can offer it, but will they get it Dont know 965 3.6 Turbo is the hidden gem and I've seen some go for £200k+ Surprised

I think 964 prices have topped out at the moment. Most because there aren't many decent ones up for sale or realistic prices. For example this seller has been sniffing glue with his example Floor
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Palladium
Watkins Glen


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2102



PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, araldite and uhu cocktail.
 
  
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AVI_8
Trainee


Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 74
Location: Prestwick


PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:20 am    Post subject: Re: 964 Prices on the Increase Reply with quote

Zingari wrote:
WasteGate wrote:
I live in France and always keep abreast of 964 Values.

I have a 1991 964 Turbo2 (965) and, when browsing a Dealership that specialises in Up-Market, Pristine Vehicles of all Marques, l saw the exact same Model 964 Turbo2 (965) as my own - Colour - Year - Mileage - Interior Trim - Condition etc.

The car was being offered for a whopping 130,000 Euros !!!

I don't know if this is any indicator of the way the market for 964 Turbo2s is going, but l was very pleasantly surprised.


They can offer it, but will they get it Dont know 965 3.6 Turbo is the hidden gem and I've seen some go for £200k+ Surprised

I think 964 prices have topped out at the moment. Most because there aren't many decent ones up for sale or realistic prices. For example this seller has been sniffing glue with his example Floor


I had a good laugh when I saw that one for sale months ago for I think 46K
It looks as rough as a badgers proverbial with it's faded 2 tone paintwork.
Wonder why it hasn't sold
Question
 
  
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Westporsche17
Newbie


Joined: 01 Feb 2017
Posts: 2



PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Better move fast... Reply with quote

I'm also toying with the idea of buying a 964 and while researching found that values of some models have doubled in the last 3 years, pretty crazy!

Good to see C2 and C4 values creeping up too.

I've included a link to the article I found below for those interested...

http://www.classiccarauctionresults.co.uk/porsche-964-double-value/
 
  
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 6001
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder when people will start buying 964 retro'd cars and turning them back to OE spec!?
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M
Trainee


Joined: 19 Jun 2016
Posts: 63



PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robertb wrote:
I wonder when people will start buying 964 retro'd cars and turning them back to OE spec!?


I considered the backdate route with my C2 but pleased I didn't. I have done a few mods but nothing that is not reversible (I have a 964 corner in my loft!)

Having said that, I did have a good look at Paul Stephens creations at the London Classic Car show two weeks back ... nice work. Thumb
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Alam
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 311
Location: Buckinghamshire


PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:40 am    Post subject: Re: Better move fast... Reply with quote

Westporsche17 wrote:
I'm also toying with the idea of buying a 964 and while researching found that values of some models have doubled in the last 3 years, pretty crazy!

Good to see C2 and C4 values creeping up too.

I've included a link to the article I found below for those interested...

http://www.classiccarauctionresults.co.uk/porsche-964-double-value/


I had intended to do the same, but then insanity struck and i decided to save the 964 i had just purchased from the scrapheap as it would have been destined to end up there inevitably

To be fair, i'm surprised the engine didnt blow, though my mate who was driving it around (and knows nothing about 911's or the oil reader) thought the oil was too low and decided to top it up Out

Result - Final nail in the coffin so a restoration was the only way out...
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paul284pt
Albert Park


Joined: 16 Sep 2010
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Location: North Yorks.


PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I considered the backdate route with my C2 but pleased I didn't. I have done a few mods but nothing that is not reversible (I have a 964 corner in my loft!)

Having said that, I did have a good look at Paul Stephens creations at the London Classic Car show two weeks back ... nice work. Thumb


I'll second that! Those were my exact original thoughts with my C2 but I decided to go for Plan B and upgrade it with various options which could be reversed (if necessary) although I doubt anyone would want to reverse a 3.8 Redtek blueprinted numbers matching engine.

Cheers,
Paul
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M
Trainee


Joined: 19 Jun 2016
Posts: 63



PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul284pt wrote:


I'll second that! Those were my exact original thoughts with my C2 but I decided to go for Plan B and upgrade it with various options which could be reversed (if necessary) although I doubt anyone would want to reverse a 3.8 Redtek blueprinted numbers matching engine.

Cheers,
Paul


Hi Paul

Missed your reply here.... I don't think you or anyone else would want to reverse anything you have done to your beautiful C2!
Touch wood, the engine in my car is currently running fine but the 3.8 Redtek version is definitely something I'm considering for the future.
Maybe now the weather is a bit better I may get to see your car for real.... and have a beer!🍻

Cheers
Mike
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