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Why do people still persist with manual cars?

I thought the original post was about "everyday cars" not really referring to performance models.

Horses for courses in my opinion.

Would I want my restoration project MG Midget to have an auto? Definitely not.
A few months ago, I drove a Jag XE with a 6 speed manual........I was never so glad to hand back a car in my life......gear change was sooooo vague.

The wiife's XF 8 speed auto is fantastic. The only way you can detect a gear change is by the rev counter.

Auto boxes have come a long way since the Borg-Warner 3 speeds that were thrown into every British car as an afterthought.

For every decent manual, you can name 10 crap.........changing from 4th to 5th being a nightmare in many. As far as 6 and 7 speed manuals, I cannot think of a more unpleasant driving prospect.

Anyone remember the ZF 5 speed, 1st to 2nd was a forward motion? Horrible.

The "purest" manual is a 4 speed, with equal selection movements and no spring loading (Ford's 2000E box being a good example) and best left to classics.

Modern cars should be exactly that, modern.

Anyone for a manual Tessler?
:floor:
 
Rhodris-dad said:
I thought the original post was about "everyday cars" not really referring to performance models.
Click to expand...

Halleluiah.

The 1.2 manual Corsa later compared to a Toyota 1.0 Auto was the clue.
:frustrated:
 
Interesting topic this.

I've always been a huge lover of manuals, I have owned an SMG E46 M3, 530i auto and have a Jag XJS Auto too, and now own a PDK 997.2. I miss having a manual so much more than I thought!

It's a superb box, is really quick and knows what you want 99% of the time, but for all the traffic and short journeys that it excels at, after the one of 2 times a week I put my foot down I'd trade it all for a clutch pedal and a stick. I haven't really got a bad word to say about it, but just doesn't suit the type of driving I want to do.

My next car will 100% be another manual.
 
T8 said:
Rhodris-dad said:
I thought the original post was about "everyday cars" not really referring to performance models.
Click to expand...

Halleluiah.

The 1.2 manual Corsa later compared to a Toyota 1.0 Auto was the clue.
:frustrated:
Click to expand...

Significantly late to the party (but better late than never). My daily is my 993 and I am so glad I bought the manual...nightmare in traffic but a joy to behold as soon as the road opens up.
 
Interesting discussion. And it seems the consensus is that PDK/double clutch is the way to go.

What I found interesting about the double clutches I've tried (on Audis, admittedly) is that it felt a bit 'playstation' - you press a button and something happens. The only way you can really tell is by glancing at the rev counter.

BMW's SMG II was different but a pain in town as it felt (and looked) like I was a learner driver again.

I'm actually at the point now where I'm seriously considering buying a 996 C4S tiptronic being a manual driver all my life.

I guess the difference there is that you can actually feel the change when you press the button. And upshifts happen quicker than I could do it. It's just the downshifts that feel like a lunge.

Am I mad for going for a tip?
 
Jackzi - despite being a die-hard manual 'nut, I must admit that PDK is absolutely fabulous. I am not a massive fan of the Tip boxes though...depends how much you don't want a manual IMHO
 
I've always thought of myself as a manual nut as well.

But as I've gotten older I've realised that I'm probably not as good at driving one as I thought when I was in my 20s.

I still want a manual. But a manual C4S is simply out of my reach price wise.

And the tip I've found is exactly how I would have specced it from the factory apart from the gearbox (and wheels, which are aftermarket, but that I can change).

I think I read somewhere else that manual drivers disregard a tip without having driven one out of principle. And that tip drivers who've had both prefer the tip. But don't quote me on that.

It might make sense as a daily driver then. (and I can hold on to it until I can afford a PDK)
 
Jackzi said:
I think I read somewhere else that manual drivers disregard a tip without having driven one out of principle. And that tip drivers who've had both prefer the tip. But don't quote me on that.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that either statement is totally correct but you're not far wrong.

I reckon that 90% of 911 owners that slag off Tiptronics have never actually driven one - some out of principle but most by choice.

I'd also say that most of those that choose to buy a Tiptronic don't regret it and go on to buy another one and/or a PDK rather than going back to a manual.
 
I may well be one of those tip owners who (hopefully, with fingers, toes and everything else crossed) doesn't regret it if the C4S passes the PPI with flying colours tomorrow.

Let's see :)
 
Tiptronic is an automatic gearbox with good and bad points .

PDK is an automatic manual gearbox .

They are very different and IMHO a PDK is far superior , but they are a lot newer and far more expensive .

They are also a pig when cold and maneuvering .

Both do the work and take the guess work out of it for you .. both can be used like a manual.

Both are better in traffic .

Manuals have their place , i just feel a Tip or PDK does more .

Im not a huge manual fan but then im not an owner or a lover of manuals in general .. far too many traffic jams where i drive ..


I also drive a bike .. cars have too many wheels for my likeing !
 
My Boxster is manual. My turbo is tip. My previous 911 was manual.

I wouldnt have a manual turbo, it simply doesn't suit the application as well as the tip box IMO. The PDK is better again.

Would I go back to a manual 'normal' 911? It depends on its purpose. For daily driving duties including fast road work, definitely a tip. For track duties with very little road use i would go manual.
 
We had an old Mercedes auto which was very leisurely to waft around in, just purchased a Golf Gti with DSG and not enjoying it at all.
 
From what I've read on here and from conversations I've had, the two mods that should make a big difference on the tip are a sprintbooster and the AMG paddles.

From what I gather the sprintbooster is like the sport chrono function in the 997 and 'tricks' the box into reacting a bit faster. And the paddles speak for themselves.

Also both basically reversible (if you buy an additional steering wheel) if you want to keep things original later on down the line.

To answer the original question of the post, I reckon a bit of learning and a bit of modding can make a very convincing argument for automatics - even 'old school' torque converters.

And if in doubt, keep a manual car in the fleet (which I will - my workhorse BMW E39)
 
In answer to the original question posed in the thread title: for pleasure but we all find pleasure in different ways :thumb:

Before I ordered my 911 I test drove a PDK Boxster and 911 and just didn't enjoy them. I felt quite disconnected from the driving experience; for me a road biased sports car should be a manual. You also have the bragging rights that it's the faster car (190mph v 189mph :D :wink: )

I am fortunate that I can usually chose when I travel and avoid peak hours - I can understand why this might be a factor to chose PDK. But then again I had a Macan S (diesel with PDK) as a courtesy car recently. I drove about 300 miles in it and found it horrid. Then again maybe that's 'cause it was diesel . :D
 
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