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krispe
Monza


Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 246
Location: Northampton


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: IMS Bearing Failure Reply with quote

So I have a 54reg 3.8S with 51,000 miles which I bought 2 years ago. I love the car which is my daily driver and has done 3 trackdays and the Northcoast 500 route in Scotland. I have a 911uk thread here http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=114307&highlight= . Soon after I bought it at 32k miles, light scoring was found in cylinders 5 and 6..... so I knew at some point a rebuild would be on the cards, but I was hoping this would be a few more years away. 2 years later on and 20000 miles driving since I bought it and the scoring has hardly changed and my oil consumption is low, so thought I had plenty of time before a rebuild would be needed Rolling Eyes (I have an LTT fitted, third radiator and change the oil every 5000 miles.)

My car being a 2005 model has the smaller IMS bearing fitted to it. We all know that these can fail and I was planning to change it when a new clutch was due, as the failure rate is still pretty low. Unfortunately my bearing decided not to wait for a clutch change and yesterday this happened frustrated



IMS Bearing has eaten itself, IM Shaft is knackered and swarf in engine, (also missing a few ball bearings). Engine rebuild required Sad

I had always accepted that I would need to get a rebuild in the future, (with Hartech liners etc) but as bore scoring is a slow death I thought I had plenty of time to plan/save etc. Catastrophic IMS bearing failure however is instant engine death and brought the rebuild much sooner that I would have liked and definitely not come at the best time....

If you still have a smaller IMS bearing fitted to your car and have done less than 80,000 miles I strongly suggest you get it replaced ASAP rather than just waiting till clutch change time.
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Alfaian
Imola


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 825
Location: S.wales


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear that mate and mine has the smaller ims bearing too but it's not something that can be changed without the engine out and stripped.

If you could pull the bearing off then the timing chain drops.

Is Harlech doing the work?
 
  
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krispe
Monza


Joined: 05 Feb 2014
Posts: 246
Location: Northampton


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alfaian wrote:
Sorry to hear that mate and mine has the smaller ims bearing too but it's not something that can be changed without the engine out and stripped.

If you could pull the bearing off then the timing chain drops.

Is Harlech doing the work?


Smaller IMS bearing (2005 model year) can be replaced in situ. Only 2006 models onwards have the larger bearing which cannot be changed without stripping the engine. However the larger bearing hardly ever fails.

Hartech will fit the new liners to the block regardless, but still deciding whether to let my usual Indy do the rest of the build or get Hartech to do it all??
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Alfaian
Imola


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 825
Location: S.wales


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I'll have a chat to my specialist when it's in for service in April.

The box is obviously off now at your local. So can he drop engine out and send it to hartech? Depends whats best for the wallet but I'd seek advice off baz or grant.
 
  
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Les
Österreich


Joined: 03 Mar 2014
Posts: 919
Location: East Sussex

2008 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alfaian wrote:
Interesting. I'll have a chat to my specialist when it's in for service in April.

The box is obviously off now at your local. So can he drop engine out and send it to hartech? Depends whats best for the wallet but I'd seek advice off baz or grant.


When I had my clutch on my 996 done, Sid at Porsche Torque charged 1 hour labour to swap out the old bearing. Think the bearing was around £50.

No brainer.
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5 out of the 8 Porsches I've owned have all suffered catastrophic engine failures.
I've now brought an "unreliable" car and its been perfect ?

 
  
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Herd2243
Newbie


Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 24



PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel your pain op.

When Hartech did my engine rebuild, I had a lot of discussion with Grant on whether to upgrade my IMS to the larger bearing as I had a LN engineering upgraded bearing fitted six months before I had discovered the scoring on the cylinders. I decided I never wanted the pain of going through another re-build so I decided to go with the larger bearing. Hartech will warranty that bearing for 2 years or 24,000 miles. I also gave Hartech the full job, I did not want to take the chance of some other indy building the engine and Hartech only doing the machining work.
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997 C2
 
  
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its outrageous that a recall wasn't put out on this problem, I cant believe the brand has remained undamaged through it all.
 
  
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Delanor
Nürburgring


Joined: 01 Oct 2016
Posts: 435
Location: The land of the big cat!


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As there were several different IMS bearings fitted from `98 on are they all suspect in the collapsing dept right from day 1?

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Del.
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Poker2009
Österreich


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 920
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palladium wrote:
its outrageous that a recall wasn't put out on this problem, I cant believe the brand has remained undamaged through it all.


I agree, but as all the cars are so old now, they have managed to get away with it - nothing anyone can do.
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997.1 C2S, black, coupe, manual, Feb '05:
65k miles, tiny IMS bearing, Millers NT+ 10W50, driven above 3000 RPM.. original engine.
 
  
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Poker2009
Österreich


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 920
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poker2009 wrote:
Palladium wrote:
its outrageous that a recall wasn't put out on this problem, I cant believe the brand has remained undamaged through it all.


I agree, but as all the cars are so old now, they have managed to get away with it - nothing anyone can do.


Mine is a Feb 2005 (and with 51k miles!) and I have also got the smaller bearing, last checked at 40k miles when I did a clutch change, had the outer seal removed at that time, and just hoping for the best! Reading this has made me feel uneasy..
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997.1 C2S, black, coupe, manual, Feb '05:
65k miles, tiny IMS bearing, Millers NT+ 10W50, driven above 3000 RPM.. original engine.
 
  
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KJD
Suzuka


Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1245
Location: Monmouthshire


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a nightmare for you. Sad
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16658
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palladium wrote:
its outrageous that a recall wasn't put out on this problem, I cant believe the brand has remained undamaged through it all.


The failure figures would be too low to warrant a recall. That plus the fact that replacing ALL the bearings would bankrupt Porsche, it's far easier and cheaper for them to dish new engines out to those that failed under warranty.
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought recalls can be for many years after production, maybe that's for safety features, but then again, your engine going bang on the autobahn is a safety issue, they got away with it big time, and created a nice little industry for others.
 
  
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pjm
Newbie


Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Posts: 17



PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Any warning signs? Reply with quote

Are there any warning signs of imminent IMS bearing failure that you can look out for?
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16658
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. If it's wearing you can check for fragments in your oil filter, but if it goes pop and fails you're goosed.
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Poker2009
Österreich


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 920
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Current concensus is have it checked for play when you have the clutch changed, remove the outer seal whilst in there, and hope for the best!
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997.1 C2S, black, coupe, manual, Feb '05:
65k miles, tiny IMS bearing, Millers NT+ 10W50, driven above 3000 RPM.. original engine.
 
  
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Scholester
Suzuka


Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 1110
Location: South West


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe us Brits have been treated differently to our friends across the pond who took Porsche to court and won. Not sure why affected UK owners are left with a large bill and little or no recourse outside of owning expensive warranties?
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997.1 Turbo Coupe, manual, black/black. 29k miles under its belt.
 
  
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Carrerascott
Silverstone


Joined: 28 Mar 2015
Posts: 128
Location: West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has got me seriously thinking about this now.
Anyone know how many labour hours for replacing the smaller IMS bearing in-situ? And what do you replace with as i see there are lots of possible options unless I am getting mixed up? Seems like you can change for a Porsche larger bearing, a LN engineering ceramic bearing or even an oil fed one!?

Any advice please for the smaller bearing ??
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2496



PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

listening to how alex yates went about it, I would say that a visit to sid, for a clutch and a bearing at 1 hour labour and 50 quid has got to be the solution. I would if I still had mine,


I am starting to miss the 996, don't get me wrong, I love aircooled, but I may go back one day. Prices are still a bargain.
 
  
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Alfaian
Imola


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 825
Location: S.wales


PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palladium wrote:
listening to how alex yates went about it, I would say that a visit to sid, for a clutch and a bearing at 1 hour labour and 50 quid has got to be the solution. I would if I still had mine,


I am starting to miss the 996, don't get me wrong, I love aircooled, but I may go back one day. Prices are still a bargain.

Everyone to sids then, please form an orderly que Laughing
 
  
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