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LaSource
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:34 pm    Post subject: Michelin PS Cup 2: Any difference between N spec and non N? Reply with quote

Hi, I've asked this question over on PH as well. However, as there is a focused group of track drivers here so though may be worth a repost.

Before I obtain another set of Cup 2 tyres in 996 GT3 sizes, I was wondering whether there was any evidence of the difference between N-spec and non N-spec versions of this tyre.

I've had a couple of sets and 'I think' I had the following experience:
My first set was non N spec - they seemed a harder compound, potentially went off after a few hot laps, but lasted a long time.
My second set was N spec - they seemed to be a softer compound, more grip, higher wear rate, and bigger tail off with multiple heat cycles.

Now you may say I have answered my question above, however I am not a pro and was getting faster by the second set anyway which may have led to a different level of load on the tyres.

So, does the above experience correlate with anyone else?
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Senoj
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No first hand exp with Michelin but i would imagine its more to do with load rating difference than compound. Are the load ratings the same? P corsa non N had a lower load rating on the rear size tyre. (997)
 
  
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MaxA
Montreal


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I understand it, if the car manufacturer works with the tyre maker for specific tyres, then the specifications of the tyre are changed for the cars. There's an article on tyrereview.co.uk setting out all the different manufacturers. See http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/How-Tyres-Change-For-OE-Approval-the-P-Zero-Story.htm

I would have said that this is a load of rubbish but then again, I saw a brand new set of non N rated Pirelli PZero tyres (in the stock sizes and load ratings) on a 991 which had cracked badly in a couple of weeks and maybe a few hundred km. Dont know
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Disco
Paul Ricard


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Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran the non-N on my 997 before the N became available (I've been on N since as there was no material price difference whenever I have been in the market for them).

I am sure that there is some kind of construction or compound difference if you ask Michelin or Porsche, but frankly I didn't notice any particular difference on road or track when I was running on them. Pretty sure that all of the load and rating numbers/letters were the same.
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Cunno
Watkins Glen


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a thread on here I believe called ask an expert. It was a Michelin gent answeing questions about their tyres. Not sure if it was on this thread or else we're, I'm sure I read that there was no change in the compound / construction of the tyre between N and none N tyres. The difference was in the quality of the tyre i.e. The tolerances for N rated tyres were a lot stricter thus ensuring you got the best of the best when choosing N rated tyres.
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NXI20
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Joined: 02 Feb 2008
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2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've run N & non-N including mixing them on an axle and I can't detect any difference but then I only potter about on road rubber Wink

Not being overly impressed with the Cup2, this season I've bought a set of Toyo 888R in 18" & a set of Trofeo R in 19" to sample something different...
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LaSource
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks.

FYI. I used the new toyo R888R tyres on the E46 M3 this past 6 months. Very good track tyre. Bags of grip. However immense amounts of road noise and surface rumbling.

I'm going to switched them out as I cant stand the road noise anymore. I think they are fine for a pure track car but not great for a car also used for road driving.
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ELA
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Joined: 30 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaSource wrote:
FYI. I used the new toyo R888R tyres on the E46 M3 this past 6 months. Very good track tyre. Bags of grip. However immense amounts of road noise and surface rumbling.
I'm going to switched them out as I cant stand the road noise anymore. I think they are fine for a pure track car but not great for a car also used for road driving.


Thanks for the info T.
I've just ordered a set of CUP2's but had R88R's in the running as they supposedly addressed the horrendous noise issue from the preceding R888. Glad I didn't go this way now hearing that this noise problem hasn't been fully addressed. TBH though, it was more the weight of them that put me off and that they are only 'W' rated in 17's.
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MaxA
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this is going to migrate into a track tyre thread, I'd put a vote in for the Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 (and now AD08R) as they're sticky, can heat cycle and are quite resilient. I've also tried Toyo 888s (sticky but wear quickly), and more recently Nitto NT01s (incredibly noisy on the road). And I have the Federal RSR 595s on my other car: really great value for a semi-slick.
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LaSource
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like we've migrated now Smile

For the toyo 888 you do need to differentiate between the traditional 888R and the new tyre (stupidly called) R888R. The two models have completely different tread patterns and I guess compound.

I believe the major thing fixed in the new model is heat resilience where the old tyre used to go off after a few laps. The new one does keep going. The toyo marketing blurb states that this new tyre is not for everyday use but is just legal enough to allow a car to be driven to the track.

In the M3 at 40 mph it is rumbling. At 120mph it sounds like a spitfire Smile
See one of the other threads where I posted a ring lap. You can hear the spitfire down in the foxhole.

They are cheap and high performing though.

It is interesting reading the experience the thinking of people with othe cars in different forums. So in M3 world the cup 2 is relatively new and seen as a tyre which goes off too early after a few laps (in my experience with GT3/GT4 it does this during a morning session as it is coming up to temps but quite solid in the afternoon session)
The trofeo R and R888R (control tyre for some competitions) are considered good tyres.
The trackday king is the Dunlop Direzza 03G
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Roro
Long Beach


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typical, I buy a set of Cup2 just as everyone else is going off them! PC Grin
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Senoj
Shanghai


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roro wrote:
Typical, I buy a set of Cup2 just as everyone else is going off them! PC Grin


I love them, last ages and grippy, progressive all good. Not quite as set and forget as the cup1 but really great tyre with long life.
 
  
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Roro
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senoj wrote:
Roro wrote:
Typical, I buy a set of Cup2 just as everyone else is going off them! PC Grin


I love them, last ages and grippy, progressive all good. Not quite as set and forget as the cup1 but really great tyre with long life.


Well that's good to hear Thumb for reference I went N0, just figured if they're developed for Porsche then no sense in not going for them
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LaSource
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roro wrote:
Typical, I buy a set of Cup2 just as everyone else is going off them! PC Grin


It's ok. Cup 2s are one of the best especially for Porsches.
I'll be getting a set next for both GT3 and M3.
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Cunno
Watkins Glen


Joined: 13 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trofeo R Get my vote, excellent grip wear better than a cup tyre but not as good as a cup 2. Don't have the weird thing like cup 2 s where they go greasy after a couple of laps then come back to you. Trofeo R much easier to set up on the day like the old cups. Not bad in the wet either

Just a shame about the price.
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FunkyGT3
Newbie


Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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2005 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so is it posible to buy N rated cup 2's in 996 GT3 sizes?

as i cant see them n listed anywhere in those sizes. just non N rated ones. i doubt it makes any difference anyway.

rich
 
  
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nick w
Zolder


Joined: 02 Feb 2009
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Location: Kent

2010 Porsche 997 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first 991RS I had was shod with the Dunlops, and first up I was a little
bit disappointed that the car hadn't come with Cup 2's. The dry grip was right
up with anything Michelin, but the issue I had was keeping the tyres at a fairly
constant temperature....that was a bit of a nightmare.
I spent a bit of time researching them and in dry tests they were 'quicker'
than the Cup 2's...but there's no way that they'd wear as well !.

Cool
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Disco
Paul Ricard


Joined: 13 May 2008
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2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FunkyGT3 wrote:
so is it posible to buy N rated cup 2's in 996 GT3 sizes?

as i cant see them n listed anywhere in those sizes. just non N rated ones. i doubt it makes any difference anyway.


Unless something has changed since I last checked : nope. N ratings in 997 and later fitments only (I don't believe there are any plans for that to change either). No reason to be concerned about non-N though - plenty of people running the 996 GT3 size perfectly happily.
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crash7
Silverstone


Joined: 28 May 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience of N rates in Pirelli & Michelin flavor is similar to the OP's original post, I find them to be softer than non-N rated tyres

Combined track / road tyre wise, another vote for Yoko AD08R
 
  
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