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Roro
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject: 911R v. 996/997 GT3 Reply with quote

Watched a couple of 911R vids on YouTube this morning ...

Is the 911R actually as good as all the reviews say it is, or does it only appear that way because there's nothing else like it (brand new) on the market?

I'm not sure anyone would have paid much attention to it, if Porsche had brought it out when the 996 or 997 GT3's were being built

... A good car made great because it's the right car at the right time?

I'd like to see a comparison of a 911R with the old GT3's, that would be an interesting test to watch. Maybe Evo or CH could sort that if they're reading this Grin
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ What he said
 
  
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freddie44
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in Roro, would love to see that comparison Thumb
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
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Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well - the R will be quite a bit quicker on the one hand, but it has the longer wheel base, wider track, electric power steering, e-diff and electric rear steer from the 991 GT3 so it is not going to drive much like the 997 GT3.

Surely the parallel would be the 964/993 RS compared to the 996 GT3 - the new one is faster, bigger and feels very different, however many fans of the older car aren't likely to prefer it even though everyone would obviously like to have a go. Question
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Roro
Long Beach


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disco wrote:
Well - the R will be quite a bit quicker on the one hand, but it has the longer wheel base, wider track, electric power steering, e-diff and electric rear steer from the 991 GT3 so it is not going to drive much like the 997 GT3.

Surely the parallel would be the 964/993 RS compared to the 996 GT3 - the new one is faster, bigger and feels very different, however many fans of the older car aren't likely to prefer it even though everyone would obviously like to have a go. Question


I see your point, but reviews I've seen tend to compare the R against the 991 GT3 and 991 GT3 RS, and I don't think that's really a good comparison. That's because Porsche are now making a distinction between PDK track cars and manual enthusiast road cars (991 GT3/RS being the former and the R being the latter. [Although tbh not really sure where the GT4 fits in but that's not relevant]). In the 'old days' weren't the GT3's for enthusiast road and a bit of track driving, and the RS's for track? So what I'm saying is I think the R is the spiritual successor to the old GT3's, so makes sense to at least do a direct comparison

A slight weakness in my argument is what happens if the new GT3 is indeed manual as many expect. Maybe Porsche's marketing team have created a bit of a mess - will be interesting to see how AP spins all this. Although having said that just because I'm confused over all this doesn't mean anybody else is...

The R running rings around the 996/997 GT3's, that's a given, as every new 911 has always been faster than the previous generation, but I'm interested more in a comparison of the way they drive, the sounds, and the overall feel rather than the hard stats. I wouldn't see any point in a track related comparison of these models as we all know the times posted by the R would be quicker and it would understeer less (unless the GT3's have been properly set up by CG or something) Grin

.... And yes, I'd love to have a go in an R Cool
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Senoj
Shanghai


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's my philosophy on it.

Don't worry about it, you can't buy one anyway and the comparisons are becoming meaningless because these are not ever cars designed to do it all. They are all good at doing something and that something is different for different people on different days in different times of their lives. The only thing that's consistent is the engine layout and that will go soon enough.

If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with Very Happy
 
  
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kingston
Österreich


Joined: 09 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think theres one or two on Ph that have a 911r and 6 RS. Probably best of asking on there for a comparison
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Roro
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senoj you sound like a man who has given up on life! Grin

Ps nice quote from Prometheus Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senoj wrote:
If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with Very Happy


Sounds more like a soap advert.













But don't tell Stephen Stills
 
  
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jackal2513
Shanghai


Joined: 22 Jan 2009
Posts: 4514
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:18 am    Post subject: Re: 911R v. 996/997 GT3 Reply with quote

Roro wrote:
Watched a couple of 911R vids on YouTube this morning ...

Is the 911R actually as good as all the reviews say it is, or does it only appear that way because there's nothing else like it (brand new) on the market?

I'm not sure anyone would have paid much attention to it, if Porsche had brought it out when the 996 or 997 GT3's were being built

... A good car made great because it's the right car at the right time?

I'd like to see a comparison of a 911R with the old GT3's, that would be an interesting test to watch. Maybe Evo or CH could sort that if they're reading this Grin



Probably very good compared to present day company but by your criteria, probably pretty shite compared to a really good focused aircooled.

Last time Evo did a giant 911 test across multiple generations, Meadens 964rs took the spoils fairly unanimously.

Drove a 650s the other day. Probably the worst test drive ive ever had I think. So utterly boring and undesirable, like even if it were 50k let alone 180k. As above though, we are all looking for slightly different things and words alone often fail to convey what those things are.
 
  
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Senoj
Shanghai


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roro wrote:
Senoj you sound like a man who has given up on life! Grin

Ps nice quote from Prometheus Wink


Given up on comparing apples with oranges.

Having been lucky enough to drive 991 RS in semi anger i can't see why it wouldn't suit a manual, sure it wouldn't be as quick but so what, essentially this is the 911R? These cars are massive but dont feel it at all as they are so nimble.

But the 997 (and 996) feel so much more intimate by comparison. Probably much like getting back in a 993/964. The difference with the 6/7 though compared with the older cars, for me, is the engine, power and throttle response. Its a sweet spot in the 911 timeline. Money no object it would be a 4.0 997RS for me, probably. It probably would not be a 911R.
 
  
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freddie44
Albert Park


Joined: 20 Aug 2009
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2007 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's something about the R I just cant quite put my finger on. It's just not cool. Contrived, perhaps?

As Senoj says the 997 4.0 RS is so very cool. The original. The pick of all 911's imo!

This is of course why Porsche make limited numbers; the R will always be worth a fortune because of this. Not because its the necessarily the most desirable.

Would be a nice problem to have Smile
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evodarren
Monza


Joined: 12 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had my 997.1 GT3 for just over 4 years now, similar to Roro. I have driven my friends 991 GT3 RS and it was great. Very fast handle superbly. But I got back in mine, and I know its nearly 10 years old, but it tingled my senses far more with more interaction needed. And for what I paid 4 years ago I would rather stick with what I have.
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Cheib
Monza


Joined: 20 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there was a review of 911 R vs 4.0 RS and the 4.0 shaved it as the better car. Given the last 4.0RS changed hands with JZM for just over £500k it would appear the market agrees....
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LaSource
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Partly I agree it would good to see a mega comparison, though partly I think it could be pointless as everyone is looking for something different and therefore a different set of reviewers will select a different set of winners.

The good news is that we do have choice for each kind of driver (limited 911R / 4.0RS notwithstanding)

However, if pure analogue is your thing then imho the earlier watercooled ones are more pure than the 991s with electric steering, rws, etc, etc.

The market price of the 911R is set more by rarity than capability though at list price it would be a very fine car.

People who know me here know my personal bias - yes, imv you can't get a more analogue watercooled car then a 996 GT3 or RS Smile
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jackal2513
Shanghai


Joined: 22 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Waiting with interest to see what happens to the 991 marketplace when the gen 2's start filtering out. I'm with freddie. The R just doesn't sit too well with me.
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Roro
Long Beach


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the next GT3 is manual 'optionable', then I don't think it's going to be long before 997 and 991.1 GT3 prices are more or less the same. This is all relative of course, but I wonder if the 991.1 GT3 will be seen as the runt of the litter long term
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Roro
Long Beach


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hold on I've just realised something... which is obvious now that i think about it

The R only exists because the 991.1 GT3 was PDK

So ... maybe the manual GT3 won't be called a GT3... Question maybe they'll call it a T or ST (they've already spat on the R name, may as well smudge the ST now)

What are the odds then that we'll get 2 new cars -

1. GT3 (PDK only) which will help protect previous marketing claims / BS about faster on track so GT3 has to be PDK and
2. ST (manual only 'GT3') which will be an R for the masses

... I'm probably over thinking all this, slow day in the office Grin
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chimp911
Zolder


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2011 Porsche 997 Turbo S

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PDK only on a 991.1 may soften the market if the 991.2 comes with a manual option, but as far as runt of the litter is concerned I'd say that's more likely to stem from their much publicised engine woes than a missing 3rd pedal... Dont know

It'd be very interesting to see what proportion of 991.2 sales are manual versus PDK if it does indeed have the option...
 
  
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