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Catastrophic engine failures - others have problems too
- Thread starter mzmini
- Start date
GARY S said:
The public's perception is that they are overpriced Beetles!
More seriously, routine maintenance costs on 'modern' Porsches is relatively low. Compare to the requirement for a £1.5k cambelt change every three yrs on a Ferrari 348 or 355, or even a £900+ E46 M3 insp 2 service.
Swings and roundabouts.
Agreed but a 355 in 1995 with a paddle shift was circa £90K which is a bit of a price difference also a 355 is in no way a mass produced car so inevitably parts/service costs will reflect that also as I am aware Ferrari did not draw on the VW/Audi group parts bin for build components.
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Delanor said:
You'd be surprised how many Fiat bits are in a 355, certainly trim components. And the cost does not excuse design flaws in those Ferrari V8s, inc valve guide wear, manifolds splitting and yes bore scoring.
And you raise an interesting point of £cost... people forget that a £13k 996 was a £65k car once, with commensurate running costs.
The issue to me was not the design flaws per se, but the way that they were handled. BMW and Jaguar repaired any car which was affected by Nikasil issues, Porsche should have done a recall and replaced all affected IMS bearings on a precautionary basis which would have helped their reputation.
Yes Porsche should have had the decency to acknowledge their design fault at the very least with those customers who were still in the POC service system. But of course that would mean admitting they got it wrong and publicising the fact = loss of reputation.
The last couple of posts I think really get to the heart of this issue, yes things go wrong but how these failures are dealt with is the key.
Far too many manufacturers just hang their customers out to dry when things go wrong, I'm not suggesting manufacturers just roll over but there does need to be a reasonable response/solution rather than the fobbing off, blame the customer, etc attitude that is displayed all too often.
Far too many manufacturers just hang their customers out to dry when things go wrong, I'm not suggesting manufacturers just roll over but there does need to be a reasonable response/solution rather than the fobbing off, blame the customer, etc attitude that is displayed all too often.
[/quote]
The issue to me was not the design flaws per se, but the way that they were handled. BMW and Jaguar repaired any car which was affected by Nikasil issues, Porsche should have done a recall and replaced all affected IMS bearings on a precautionary basis which would have helped their reputation.[/quote]
That i think is the nail on the head , a sports car is designed to use cutting edge materials to make it as light but still as strong as possible , its also not really designed to be a Volvo and last 500k miles with out any appreciable wear ( old ones anyways ) .. its a sports car !
Some faults will not be found for many years ( the nature of the beast ) but had Porsche put its hand in its pocket then the brand may well have a better name and there would be much less criticism and mud slinging going on .
just IMHO of cource .
The issue to me was not the design flaws per se, but the way that they were handled. BMW and Jaguar repaired any car which was affected by Nikasil issues, Porsche should have done a recall and replaced all affected IMS bearings on a precautionary basis which would have helped their reputation.[/quote]
That i think is the nail on the head , a sports car is designed to use cutting edge materials to make it as light but still as strong as possible , its also not really designed to be a Volvo and last 500k miles with out any appreciable wear ( old ones anyways ) .. its a sports car !
Some faults will not be found for many years ( the nature of the beast ) but had Porsche put its hand in its pocket then the brand may well have a better name and there would be much less criticism and mud slinging going on .
just IMHO of cource .
Thing is...we bought them anyway, most of us (presumably) in the knowledge of IMS, bore-score possibilities etc.
And these issues are largely known to us owners, not the public at large, who, inasmuch as they think about it, probably perceive Porsche as a premium brand.
So maybe, from their perspective, Porsche did better by not acknowledging the issues than acknowledging them.
no doubt they did the calculation...
And these issues are largely known to us owners, not the public at large, who, inasmuch as they think about it, probably perceive Porsche as a premium brand.
So maybe, from their perspective, Porsche did better by not acknowledging the issues than acknowledging them.
no doubt they did the calculation...
jonttt
Monaco
- Joined
- 20 Aug 2012
- Messages
- 10,581
My first Z3m had the e46 diff/boot floor split, it was over 10 years old and BMW repaired it. It was not an official warranty repair but they did not ask me for penny but they gave me no paperwork, I was happy (and surprised) by that :worship:
The S54 engines had a tendency to spin a shell and seize the engine, BMW did a recall but did not include the Z3m (my second) as it had a lower limiter. They replaced mine free of charge when I asked if they would well outside of warranty (I then raised the red line on a remap :grin: )
Its a pity Porsche did not take a similar stance, you don't have to admit liability, just look after your customers who are affected by your ##### ups :roll:
Ps my RR blew its engine on 15k miles, its still the best daily I ever had but I'd never buy one over 3 years old :nooo:
The S54 engines had a tendency to spin a shell and seize the engine, BMW did a recall but did not include the Z3m (my second) as it had a lower limiter. They replaced mine free of charge when I asked if they would well outside of warranty (I then raised the red line on a remap :grin: )
Its a pity Porsche did not take a similar stance, you don't have to admit liability, just look after your customers who are affected by your ##### ups :roll:
Ps my RR blew its engine on 15k miles, its still the best daily I ever had but I'd never buy one over 3 years old :nooo:
reading up on these issues, why cant car makers just get it right, using stronger, better materials, and better techniques, it seems that most engines or gearboxes have weaknesses. my friends Hyundai Tucson just destroyed itself after only 129k miles on a diesel. He only ever drove it lightly. It really isn't good enough.
On the other side of the coin, I had an Audi S2 back in the day. I bought it with a broken timing belt & 89k miles on it from a work colleague.
I stripped the head off to replace a couple of bent valves & found that the cylinders still had the cross hatching in them! That was a testament to the build quality of the older 90's built engines in them.
I sold the car on with over 100k on it & it was still running like a dream!
I stripped the head off to replace a couple of bent valves & found that the cylinders still had the cross hatching in them! That was a testament to the build quality of the older 90's built engines in them.
I sold the car on with over 100k on it & it was still running like a dream!
askgeez
Albert Park
- Joined
- 5 Apr 2015
- Messages
- 1,660
I had a fiat coupe 20v in 1997. Was a lovely car to drive, the engine note was beautiful, right up until it snapped its timing chain in almost stationary traffic. Bent all 20 of those valves apparently :frustrated:
Only 32k miles , bought from main dealer for £15k. Service schedule didn't require a change till 72k. Engine out job (as was case for many such repairs * ). It was £ thousands (3 or 4k?) ... I can't even remember exactly how much. Certainly borderline whether it was economically viable, but was P&J.
Fiat were 💩, some tiny contribution IIRC, certainly not half.
Only good thing is that I repaired it, then PX into OPC Hatfield for an almost new Boxster (my 1st pork!)
* one of reasons you probably don't see any on road anymore , uneconomical to repair.
Only 32k miles , bought from main dealer for £15k. Service schedule didn't require a change till 72k. Engine out job (as was case for many such repairs * ). It was £ thousands (3 or 4k?) ... I can't even remember exactly how much. Certainly borderline whether it was economically viable, but was P&J.
Fiat were 💩, some tiny contribution IIRC, certainly not half.
Only good thing is that I repaired it, then PX into OPC Hatfield for an almost new Boxster (my 1st pork!)
* one of reasons you probably don't see any on road anymore , uneconomical to repair.
nickmartin9
New member
- Joined
- 18 Aug 2016
- Messages
- 35
kas750 said:
mine too
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