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996 Turbo RWD conversion

911tom said:
996ttalot said:
Tom

If you make a real 900hp you understand that firstly your PSM button will need to be off at any real load because it will stop you in your tracks - literally halt the car on acceleration because it cannot cope.

Secondly you have zero chance of running AWD with that hp - there are a lot of reasons why both hardware and safety as to why you will need to be RWD.

RWD and buckets of hp works fine. RWD in any 996 Turbo is a much better driving experience especially with PSM off - you can actually feel what it is doing instead of guessing and you will need to be able to feel the tyres. People seem to think that switching PSM off will kill you - it won't just driving not to the conditions will.

If it was the 997 Platform my answer would be slightly different.

Ken
Click to expand...

Ken you are a true gent :thumbs:

I thought there'd be good reason for not keeping it AWD, there had to be. I don't know what power I'll see tbh but safety and reliability are key. Your comments regarding psm actually reflect my car in the small time that I had it with larger injectors etc. It seemed psm was fine when I ran stock injectors but the extra power meant psm cut the power on WOT. I suspect my days of turning up at vmax and just mashing the throttle are long gone lol

One last question Ken (I know your busy). Am I correct in presuming psm will not register any faults. As whilst the awd system is mechanically fairly clever it has not electronic connection. Well other than abs obviously. Therefore it should not even notice the lack of drive to the front wheels. I'll just turn psm off when at an event. Around town I can keep it on and either run a different map or modulate my foot.
Click to expand...
PSM will not register any faults. Whether you keep the diff in place disconnected or remove it will be your choice depending on your requirements - you should be able to understand the impact of weight reduction if you remove it and make suitable compensation.
 
MisterCorn said:
Ken, I would be interested to hear why it really must be RWD, would the same apply if running a Syvecs?

MC
Click to expand...
There are lots of things that we found when we pushed the envelope with AWD many years ago - things breaking, locking etc. It just makes it very unpredictable so RWD reduces overall stress of drivetrain components. The 997 is different and we retain AWD if PASM is retained, otherwise again bin the AWD - the 997 system is far superior in what it can cope with compared to 996 platform.

The stock 996 Turbo was essentially designed as a touring car across Europe. This is why it has AWD. I would imagine it has nothing to do with the power it made stock since the GT2 makes more and is not AWD.

As to Syvecs I don't know frankly - we tried it before and don't use it now.

Ken
 
Wow Tom, we're not going to see what way you've gone :)

Caroline's has been running RWD since 2013 with plenty of track days, PSM has to be off.

Ken's done the gearbox and engine upgrade and Caroline is currently hooning around RWD having fun (as it's all run in), boost controller set low in this weather, but it does go very well :)

Caroline's needed a new crank case, Turbo's and injectors, rod's etc have been done to Ken's 'up to 1000bhp' level, but with much much less than that.

Try RWD - I think you'll like it, Caroline had no regrets with RWD :)
 
Bodgerben said:
Wow Tom, we're not going to see what way you've gone :)
Click to expand...
Hopefully not due to me spinning off under too acceleration / RWD combo :D




Ben that is inspiring thank you :thumb:

Also glad to hear the car is back on the road. I take it Caroline was happy with the addition of bigger turbos!!! Hopefully see you at terminal velocity next year
 
Winter tyres on - right foot down :)

Bigger Turbo's - Ken didn't like the idea of Caroline having a full engine build with the same power, so he sorted out a few goodies for her.

The car is her baby and Ken, Adam and the boys have done a fantastic job, she's over the moon. Some steering wheel paddles and some more minor mods in the new year. Ken persuaded Caroline to drive in manual all the time - which she has so far.

Yes, aim to meet up next year at a TV day.
 
Paddles make a huge difference Ben. Well worth doing imo.
 
Caroline's car is a good example - not sure how much power it has, certainly would have thought it would be in the 700hp range, but I showed her in full boost (well 1.4 bar which we can push in better weather to 1.6bar) what happens when you floor it and as soon as you get to 4000rpm it just stops with PSM on - it won't pull through because it locks the rears because the tyres are spinning.

When you switch the PSM off, it just pulls through, but the great thing is that you are so connected, you know precisely what the rears are doing, how much grip and you can feather the throttle accordingly.

I have loads of 996 Turbos that are RWD and most are driven on track etc.

Caroline has been driving hers on track for ages with RWD.
 
Does PSM turn it into RWD? Or does it need a conversion, of some kind?

My only experience of this is a local guy with a C4S that has removed loads of stuff from the front end to make it rwd. Goes well and exhaust not makes it sound superb. Also handles well.

Am I missing something obvious?
 
The AWD system is purely mechanical. If there is a difference in speeds between the average real wheel speed and average front wheel speed then more drive is diverted to the front. All mechanical. It seems to work well on my car, but from what Ken says it sounds as if the front diff is not all that strong, as more power goes through the back wheels disproportionately more will go through the front and with no details on the consequences it sounds like it will end in tears. So once you get to 700hp+ not only do you need to open the crankcase to put stronger rods in, you need to strengthen the gearbox and go RWD I can see why there are quite a few 650hp 996 turbos. The next step is nuts.

MC
 
996ttalot said:
Caroline's car is a good example - not sure how much power it has, certainly would have thought it would be in the 700hp range, but I showed her in full boost (well 1.4 bar which we can push in better weather to 1.6bar) what happens when you floor it and as soon as you get to 4000rpm it just stops with PSM on - it won't pull through because it locks the rears because the tyres are spinning.

When you switch the PSM off, it just pulls through, but the great thing is that you are so connected, you know precisely what the rears are doing, how much grip and you can feather the throttle accordingly.

I have loads of 996 Turbos that are RWD and most are driven on track etc.

Caroline has been driving hers on track for ages with RWD.
Click to expand...

Is Carols' engine built?
 
ok51mon said:
Is Carols' engine built?
Click to expand...

Oh yes.

Main%20bearings.jpg


Crankcase%20and%20studs.jpg


Crankcase%20and%20studs%202.jpg


Crankcase%20and%20liners.jpg


Crank%20and%20Rods.jpg


Both%20heads%20on.jpg


With K16/39's, uprated gearbox, injectors, full Akro etc.
 
Nothing quite like a lovely cleaned engine being built. How long would you say your build took? Seeing these pics has inspired me to post some of my build in progress... Probably should be working, I am far to easily distracted lol!
 
911tom said:
Nothing quite like a lovely cleaned engine being built. How long would you say your build took? Seeing these pics has inspired me to post some of my build in progress... Probably should be working, I am far to easily distracted lol!
Click to expand...

:food:

MC
 
MisterCorn said:
The AWD system is purely mechanical. If there is a difference in speeds between the average real wheel speed and average front wheel speed then more drive is diverted to the front. All mechanical. It seems to work well on my car...
Click to expand...
FWIW, it seems to work nicely on the track too IME. I'm sure, if I jumped from a GT3 into my car, there'd be a noticeable loss of steering feel and feedback, no doubt, but in comparison to a huge number of other road sports cars, I reckon it's still pretty sharp.

At my level of skill (read, lack of) and competence (substitute incompetence) I'm happy to stick with AWD.
 
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