MY JMG Porsche experience - and the maintenance plan myth?

Sarfend said:

Phil 997 said:

Chris that's another one North of Watford lol. The guys down south seem to be missing a trick. I wonder what the reason is why 9e. RPM, Brookspeed or the likes don't do one.

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You're the millionth person I've told, there is no demand. :what: :grin: :nooo:

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:floor: Took a second but then it sank in, lol very funny I will remember that one :thumb: :grin:

Dealt with JMG twice before, and although they seem very well intentioned I can verify on several occasions that they just didnt have their game together. They moved premises a couple of years ago so there was some disruption, but Ferndown OPC are top notch. Cost more but get what you pay for.

dannyboy said:

I have tried to use JMG over the past couple of years. They come across as genuine people but just don't have their S**t together. I took my car in to go onto the maintenance plan. I got it through the 400 point check with one advisory to replace my number plate as it was delaminating. I was also told Jon would be in touch with docs to accept car onto plan as the bloke who dealt with me couldn't see any reason why not. I must have emailed and rung them over 10 times over the course of a period to try and find out what was happening. Every time was either ignored (email) or answer was "Jon would ring you back."

I have decided to give Brookspeed a go as I need an interim service (don't like only servicing car once every 2 years with OPC) + a few other bits.

I think Jon and the team are 924/944/928 enthusiasts and really aren't that bothered about 911's.

ps - It appears their website has gone down. Have JMG gone out of business?

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That's interesting that you read their repeated failure to come back to you (just as I experienced) as just not having it together. As mentiond I see it more as a deliberate tactic to get hopeful maintenance planners to pay for an expensive full reset service and potentially other work, then give the run around so no risk of having someone on the plan.

I was quite determined at that point to join the plan, so persisted well beyond what was considered even remotely acceptable customer service, and in the end it was getting so awkward that when I did manage to speak to them, 'Dave' was just so blunt with me it seemed obvious he was trying to say 'read between the lines here mate'.

Incidentally they were offering you the maintenance plan without the reset service?

What's a 'reset service' ? Even using top quality Miller's oil (which they won't have been using) it equates to no more than £200 worth of parts and about two hours work.

I wish more owners would get involved in servicing their own cars. This isn't difficult stuff to do. You might even find it quite satisfying to do the work yourself, rather than trying to subscribe to some expensive Insurance plan in the hope that it will pay out if something goes wrong.

Your dealings with the garage so far should indicate to you the likely success of a claim should you need to make one. In short, you've dodged a bullet.

Christchurch Indie Porsche Specialist...

Might want to look up Silvertune, Wilvery Road,
Christchurch, across from Christchurch Tyres off Somerford Lane?!
07514 094964.
Eddie is ex OPC & I think is excellent! Nice guy too...

Martin

I would certainly not recommend JMG - there are lots of other great Porsche specialists on the South Coast who will get my business from now on (and OPC Portsmouth who are excellent and good value with classics these days). I had several very bad experiences with JMG including the car being returned in a dangerous state (a simple lack of checking I'm sure but not checking that the steering wheel is properly attached isnt really forgivable is it?), things broken which they hoped I would not notice, etc. Despite the new guy on the front desk being good their communication has always been really terrible. I just don't believe they are really people to be considered as trustworthy given my other experiences with them. Won't ever want to trust with my pride and joy with them again despite their knowledge.

Hi JM24 and MotiveAuto in particular.

I am Jon Mitchell, owner of JMG Porsche. I am also the senior Porsche technician here with over 30 years experience and one of the technical advisor team of the official Porsche club of great Britain and the independent Porsche enthusiasts club.

I was made aware of your complaint here on 911UK earlier in the year, as although I have been a member of this forum for many years, the admins will I am sure confirm, I had not logged in for many years.

This is mainly because in my capacity with the two Porsche clubs, any spare time I had to keep an eye on forums, had to be focussed on those two Porsche clubs to an extent.

However with the advent of social media and the forums becoming less busy, I now have more time to join in on other forums like this one.

During the summer, having had my attention drawn to a couple of unhappy members, I had extensive chats with Phill997 here at 911UK as well as communicating with Sundeep.

Of the two or three unhappy posts about JMG I can find over a time period of many years, this one is one of those, so although I apologise that it is rather late, I thought it is better late than never.

JM24
Regarding you complaint dating back to 2016, I have looked into the complaint and identified your case specifically.

I do not believe your complaint here at 911UK is completely accurate, and I do still have the documents and emails to confirm the actual details, however will not publish them without your express consent.

You did indeed visit us with the hope of being able to have your Porsche 997 join our maintenance plan.

As you remember, and the documentation shows, your car had a number of faults which required rectification before it could be accepted onto the maintenance plan.

The maintenance plan was originally developed to help people to budget their porsche, in particular during the recession, when it was launched around 2009.

The benefit of the plan was that in exchange for a monthly fee, ranging from £65 to £100, members would get their car serviced every year (even models with two yearly servicing), with all service extras included, but also any repairs to the car (other than cosmetic) would be without charge for labour, only parts.

For a car to join the plan, it had to pass inspection and be fault free.

We are not talking about minor faults like a chipped front bumper here, but actual faults, or components which were boarderline failures.

In other words, a waterpump making a grinding noise would be considered a fault.. An old looking water pump would not.

With your car in particular, you wanted us to ignore some of these faults and just exclude them from the maintenance plan in your case.

The problem is, the maintenance plan came with an agreement, and a system of administration, which meant the process should be simple for members and for the business.

If a car turned up with a problem and the customer was on the maintenance plan, the problem would be fixed, with the customer only paying for parts. No quibbles, no second guessing, no "hang on a moment while I dig out your paperwork to see what is excluded and if the excluded fault might have caused this one".

In your case, you refused to have the fault repaired.

We even explained that the fault did not have to be repaired here, much like an MOT failure, we just needed to see the car come back without that fault still being there.

In the case of a corroded and leaking oil tandem pump, we just needed to see a new one had been fitted.

However, despite telling you this on more than one occasion, you posted your complaint here, which I only recently became aware of.

Although this complaint is an old one, I thought it best to reply to it, as obviously anyone searching for my business here, may be mislead into thinking we had indeed somehow been less than transparent in our activities, or may have constructively mislead you, or otherwise been of bad ethics.

If you feel my account is not correct, please feel free to reply to this, and to notify me, so I know the reply is here.

Now for MotiveAuto.

You only seem to have 4 posts in 911UK, and from those posts I am unable to identify you.

Also all four posts seem to be on a couple of subjects where someone else has mentioned a bad experience at JMG, all of which I take seriously.

I can only find around four people on 911UK who over a decade have had bad things to say about us, and you are one.

So I value finding out who you are, so I can identify your issue.

However, having spoken to Joe who I believe you have mentioned you dealt with, he and the rest of the staff here have no recolection of your visit here, or the issues you mention you have suffered.

Please get in touch with us to explain, or leave a reply here.

One concern we do have is that a previous employee of JMG Porsche, who subsequently set up in competition with us, has a track record of this kind of rumour spreading, so although I do on the one hand recognise you may have a reasonable complaint, I also suspect that due to your posting history here, without any specifics or other involvement in the 911UK community, your complaint may be a fictitious one.

I would however like to be enlightened otherwise.

In the future I will try to be more active in this forum, supporting it as I do on others.

All the best

Well, I've just read all that and that wasn't the outcome i was expecting ?

I'm also shocked to learn that Hartech are in Bolton...... :thumbs: Wrong side of the Penines for me but as one other forum member has stated the drive to and indeed from from would certainly make up for that.

Back to the Original Post, I'm now eargerly anticipating the response to debunk the claims that JMG have fobbed him off for a grand and aslo what was he expecting Hartech to do...... Find the same faults and have them not fix them as well whilst awaiting a GOLD Level service levell agreememnt on something that they want to check is fixed before sending out documentaion to approve this scheme which obviously exists but comes with apparent clauses.

Understood....... But WHY ? would some one want this level of of comfort while still driving about in a car that some one has advised is about ready to have a mechanical failure ? I had my car serviced a few weeks ago and was advised that it needed 3 Coil packs...... I was shown the offending items and was advised "LOOK....they're the old ones... see how they are different from these, these are the new ones, it wants them at some point but it's totally up to you !!

At that point i could have said leave it..... Driven home and developed a misfire, come on here and bad mouthed the garage potentially costing the garage many thousands of pounds..... I know from experience these things when cracked are prone to failure, water ingress etc and once moved to change the plug are then fragile to failure.

Coming on here and telling us half a story

jm24 hasn't posted anything on here for over 2 years so I'm not holding my breath that he'll contribute any more to this thread.

C4Silver said:

Well, I've just read all that and that wasn't the outcome i was expecting ?

I'm also shocked to learn that Hartech are in Bolton...... :thumbs: Wrong side of the Penines for me but as one other forum member has stated the drive to and indeed from from would certainly make up for that.

Back to the Original Post, I'm now eargerly anticipating the response to debunk the claims that JMG have fobbed him off for a grand and aslo what was he expecting Hartech to do...... Find the same faults and have them not fix them as well whilst awaiting a GOLD Level service levell agreememnt on something that they want to check is fixed before sending out documentaion to approve this scheme which obviously exists but comes with apparent clauses.

Understood....... But WHY ? would some one want this level of of comfort while still driving about in a car that some one has advised is about ready to have a mechanical failure ? I had my car serviced a few weeks ago and was advised that it needed 3 Coil packs...... I was shown the offending items and was advised "LOOK....they're the old ones... see how they are different from these, these are the new ones, it wants them at some point but it's totally up to you !!

At that point i could have said leave it..... Driven home and developed a misfire, come on here and bad mouthed the garage potentially costing the garage many thousands of pounds..... I know from experience these things when cracked are prone to failure, water ingress etc and once moved to change the plug are then fragile to failure.

Coming on here and telling us half a story

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In the early years of my career the dodgy customers I might have would have been cocaine dealers!

Now there is a small minority of Porsche owners who like and enjoy confrontation... Another small minority who do not care how their Porsche drives, as long as it looks good.

Then there is the majority who are lovely to deal with, they want their car to drive as well as it did from the factory, or better. They get a great car, looked after with great care, we get job satisfaction, a perfect transaction.

I was talking to Grant at Hartech just the other day about this, and he experiences the same problems that I thought were limited to just my own experience.

At least once a month we advise on a service about the condition of someones brakes, it could be a hydraulic issue, or potentially a performance issue... But once a month, someone will get offended by this and tell me that I am a liar because their car passed the MOT.

I then have to explain that the MOT standards for brakes were set in 1965 and based roughly on the weight of the vehicle, that a modern 911 weighs the same as a Ford Zephyr (yes really), and so the brakes on a modern 911 only need to be as good as 1960's drum brakes to pass the MOT. Not only that, but you need to remember in 1965, the drum brakes had to be faulty or really bad to fail the MOT, which is why you rarely hear of cars failing the MOT on brakes (other than rusty brake lines, perished flexi hoses, and severe imbalances.

Anyway, some days we have customers who really do not want their car fixed, and we are in the business of fixing cars, so those days are often ones spent in despair.

Today I searched this forum and found 3 people who were upset with us... One wanted us to delete an observation from his service advisories, another I think was just down to not understanding "Menu prices" and that they were not a rip off, and this one was another.

The more suspect thing was that there is one guy who has left 4 posts, on 3 of these complaints, all in the same day, and they are the only 4 posts he has ever left... He claimed to be an ex customer, but seemed to be on more of a mission and I believe he is actually an ex employee.

Life is sweet at times, other times less so.

T8 said:

jm24 hasn't posted anything on here for over 2 years so I'm not holding my breath that he'll contribute any more to this thread.

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Well I have emailed him to notify of my response, hopefully he will pop back.

The main thing is setting the record straight, the posts I have answered today, three of them, are all old.. But they last forever.

I was not active here, as I was limited on time, but now that the forums I am contracted with are less busy, I can spread myself around a bit more.

If I had known at the time, then I could have answered the complaints there and then, but certainly none of the complaints originators emailed me before or after their complaints.

But I do also think the threads should stay open, as I am an honest business and think that with transparency they should be able to come back and comment, if they believe anything I have said is untrue.

Thank you all for putting up with my rambling today, but a few records needed putting straight.

All the best

Not every customer is honest .. trustworthy and wont try and distort the facts .. i'm afraid as in life .. not everyone is nice .

I speak from my own 37 years in this trade and what i have seen people do .. or try it on ... some have even cost me money due to their LYING .

Whilst i do my utmost to help out anyone here i do stick up for us garages whenever i can .

i've not read in detail JMG,s reply ... but it does strike a chord with me .

Please feel free to argue with me .

JonMit said:

You only seem to have 4 posts in 911UK, and from those posts I am unable to identify you.

Also all four posts seem to be on a couple of subjects where someone else has mentioned a bad experience at JMG, all of which I take seriously.

I can only find around four people on 911UK who over a decade have had bad things to say about us, and you are one.

So I value finding out who you are, so I can identify your issue.

However, having spoken to Joe who I believe you have mentioned you dealt with, he and the rest of the staff here have no recolection of your visit here, or the issues you mention you have suffered.

Please get in touch with us to explain, or leave a reply here.

One concern we do have is that a previous employee of JMG Porsche, who subsequently set up in competition with us, has a track record of this kind of rumour spreading, so although I do on the one hand recognise you may have a reasonable complaint, I also suspect that due to your posting history here, without any specifics or other involvement in the 911UK community, your complaint may be a fictitious one.

I would however like to be enlightened otherwise.

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JonMit, thanks for the response, it's good to hear that your're back to health after many years away from your business.

So that you're clear, if you have concerns to the posting nature by any member of the site, you take it up with myself. Since I don't have any PM's or emails from your on this, I'm not aware of any issues. I am however looking into MotiveAuto's posts and profile.

It is not for you to just attack an individual's profile in relation to feedback your garage has received. It doesn't matter whether they post 4 times or 4,000 times. Site Review rules have evolved over time in terms of how users write feedback to ensure it is factual. Agreed there may be differences in accuracy that might lead to 2 sides to a story, but it is for the site to determine in our impartial role to decide on that.

I do realise I haven't responded to your PM in June when you described the from 2013 the "the Dark ages of JMG" with your serious rogue staffing problems, maybe that's a side of the story you should explain.

In the mean time I would suggest you review our guide to traders on dealing with reviews which can be found here http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=129282

Sorry 911uk,

I had not realised I had attacked anyones profile and that is genuine.

All it set out to do was mention that someone appeared for one day, dragged 3 threads from deep in the past, into the present, who I could not identify as a valid customer or the specifics of his complaint. (We are unlikely of left a steering wheel loose, and rarely have to remove them, but certainly would remember a complaint about that.)

Thanks for looking into the profile though, not sure if you are able to match up the ip address of the registration to other accounts to shed any light on it.

I will send you a PM later.

deMort said:

Not every customer is honest .. trustworthy and wont try and distort the facts .. i'm afraid as in life .. not everyone is nice .

I speak from my own 37 years in this trade and what i have seen people do .. or try it on ... some have even cost me money due to their LYING .

Whilst i do my utmost to help out anyone here i do stick up for us garages whenever i can .

i've not read in detail JMG,s reply ... but it does strike a chord with me .

Please feel free to argue with me .

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As I said to Grant at Hartech the other day when he mirrored some of my experiences with rogue customers, "I am glad to hear it is not just me, as misery loves company!" as I had begun to wonder if it was just me and I had the kind of face which brings out the worst in people.

The majority of Porsche owners are fantastic people, but there are a few sly customers who "try it on".

I think the most common problem is ones that are not straight about a problem when they drop the car off, but I think this is just a cognative bias of some sort at work, where part of them thinks "If I do not mention X" or "If I do not mention the big clanging noise" "then it might be less of a problem" or "I might seem less silly"...

These I accepted years ago as par for the course.

But there are some that want you to either perform a miracle, restore their car as part of a service, or just want to extort money from businesses, usually all of these with threatening social media exposure.

In the past we have been especially soft with some of the badly behaved ones, bending over backwards to help them out even when they are being naughty, but the more you bend over, the more they seem to push for more, or in some cases behave even worse.

On the flip side, if ever we are in the wrong, I will always do my utmost and feel completely ashamed by it all.

Most customers though are really great guys, and many of them I consider as friends, as they may have been customers reaching into decades in some cases.

My favourite customers really are the enthusiasts, who want their car to be as good as it can be, even if they have a budget, for these guys I will often perform some work for free or do whatever I can to make their dreams come true within the budget they have.

But in this case, of this thread, the problem was really that the customer in question wanted a membership service tailored to his requirements, beyond what could reasonably be administrated and managed, especially where it could open a can of worms of liability.